[blue77green]

Hello everyone,
I've visited this website quite frequently over the past few months and have only recently become a member. I'm kind of shy and tend to read alot, not having posted any messages on the forums. However, I was hoping that some of you veterans might know the answers to some of these questions that have come up in my mind since beginning NBE. I've looked around the topics and don't see anyone having brought some of these things up so I figured I'd ask Anyway I'm a biological male and have been doing NBE for about 3 weeks now. I started out for the first 3 days on:

1000 PM(2 capsules of the ainterol)(1 capsule of 500 taken every 12 hours)
640mg of SP(1 capsule of 320, taken every 12 hours)
1600mg Spearmint(2 capsules of 400, taken every 12 hours)
And then I take a Swanson product for hair,skin,nails that has some different ingredients, one of which is PABA, which is supposed to keep estrogen from breaking down as quickly, from what I've read. The mg is 25 though on the PABA, so I don't know if that's really that much or not

Anyway, I did those for about 3 days or so and then I added 2 extra capsules of PM per day.... so I'm at 2000 daily now. Everything else is the same. I've been doing that for about 3 weeks now.

I'm overweight a little and I've always had the moobies going on so it's hard to say if I've gain anything or not. I plan on losing weight though but I'm worried about it stopping any growth... But here are the questions that I had

1) Since I'm overweight would I need MORE of everything than an average weight person would need? Do you think it hinders the capsules working as well at a lower dosage?

2) People who have attained growth... do you typically eat anything when you take any pills or do you just drink milk or whatever else? Do you hold off on eating anything for a certain period of time around the time you take the pills to allow for better absorption or does that not matter? I know you shouldn't eat a fatty meal but I didn't know if just regular food might hinder the capsules a little.

3) Do you think 12 hours is too far apart between dosages? I was thinking to add 2 more PM capsules at midday sometime to keep a steady supply of PM in my body. Do you think it would HELP?

4) I'm taking SP and Spearmint as anti-androgens... This might sound like a weird question but if I'm still getting erections that means it's not suppressing the testosterone enough...meaning I should maybe increase the dosage... is that right?

5) Do you think that PABA is enough in the swanson capsule I'm taking(see above)?

I know it's only been 3 weeks and it will take time on everything but I'm just trying to set myself up here in the beginning for the best overall results... Thanks SO MUCH for any help!!! I really enjoy reading all of these posts all the time!!!

[GoneGirl]

I don't consider myself a veteran member, but I'll give you my opinion on the questions you've asked:

1) Since I'm overweight would I need MORE of everything than an average weight person would need? Do you think it hinders the capsules working as well at a lower dosage?

The amount of a particular supplement needed by a person is determined by so many factors. Weight may be a factor insofar as fatty tissue produces estrogen. That's why gynecomastia is often associated with overweight males.

2) People who have attained growth... do you typically eat anything when you take any pills or do you just drink milk or whatever else? Do you hold off on eating anything for a certain period of time around the time you take the pills to allow for better absorption or does that not matter? I know you shouldn't eat a fatty meal but I didn't know if just regular food might hinder the capsules a little.

I've taken my supplements before, during, and after eating, with and without a glass of milk. I never noticed any consequence one way or the other. Calcium is recommended for efficient absorption of PM, so taking a Ca supplement or consuming some dairy products is probably going to help.

3) Do you think 12 hours is too far apart between dosages? I was thinking to add 2 more PM capsules at midday sometime to keep a steady supply of PM in my body. Do you think it would HELP?

I've always spread out my doses over the course of the day. Taking too much at one time, in my opinion, with produce a spike in the phyto-estrogen level above that which the body can use.

4) I'm taking SP and Spearmint as anti-androgens... This might sound like a weird question but if I'm still getting erections that means it's not suppressing the testosterone enough...meaning I should maybe increase the dosage... is that right?

If you mean spontaneous erections, then yes, your testosterone level is still too high. But, it's only been 3 weeks. Give it some time to work. Don't be so impatient for results, they will come.

5) Do you think that PABA is enough in the swanson capsule I'm taking(see above)?

I have no opinion on this.

I know it's only been 3 weeks and it will take time on everything but I'm just trying to set myself up here in the beginning for the best overall results... Thanks SO MUCH for any help!!! I really enjoy reading all of these posts all the time!!!

I have to say that I think your program is too complex for a newbie. I would have recommended taking just PM, ramping up to 2000 to 3000 mg/day to gauge its effect on your body. For me, that was all I needed to begin strong breast growth. You have no way of knowing what is doing what when you throw all those herbs in the mix at once. After 3 months on just PM, I've now added Spearmint to see if I can cut back on my PM dosage and still get growth. It will take a few weeks to determine whether that regimen is working.

Welcome to the forum. I hope my meager experience is of some help to you.

Clara Kay

[Samantha Rogers]

Hi honey, and welcome!! You will make friends here quickly I am sure. I typed a whole long response on my phone but then lost it somehow (dang!) and in the meantime Clara answered most of your questions...saved me retyping it all. Thanks, Clara!
Not much to add. First I want to compliment you on doing your homework. Bravo
You are certainly looking at the right kinds if stuff. I would drop the hair and nail thingy for now. And though I do think an anti andrigen is a good idea, you are probably overdoing it with both. The amounts look good to me, but I would just settle on one or the other.
Now, a word about weight and weight loss. First, though I don't remember specifics about this from anywhere (Lotus...got anything in your massive bag of research?) it certainly makes sense that a larger body mass might need higher quantities, but I also cannot answer that with authority. However, weight gain and NBE can be tough to accomplish together. Either one is hard enough by itself. I would suggest taking a look at Abidrews thread. She isnt coming around much anymore, lucky girl, because ...well, just read her stuff yourself. She is a sweetheart but was very very up on nutrition and if you are serious about weight loss her thread might be a good starting point.
Best of luck, Blue! Oooh, can I call you Blue? I used to use that as a nickname years ago, myself.
Hugs
Sammie

[Lotus]

Hi, blue77green,

Welcome,
Your program breakdown

1000 PM- Pueraria Mirifica - Awesome for breast growth
640mg of SP- Anti-androgen
1600mg Spearmint-Anti-androgen keep

These are all suggestions for you, see how it goes at first. Then if you would like we can talk about adding some Pro-hormone's, Pro-Aromatase, but you have PM and Spearmint, which is a good starter!

1) Since I'm overweight would I need MORE of everything than an average weight person would need? Do you think it hinders the capsules working as well at a lower dosage? Not really, overweight men tend to produce more aromatase the key enzyme in converting testosterone into estrogen.


2) People who have attained growth... do you typically eat anything when you take any pills or do you just drink milk or whatever else? Do you hold off on eating anything for a certain period of time around the time you take the pills to allow for better absorption or does that not matter? I know you shouldn't eat a fatty meal but I didn't know if just regular food might hinder the capsules a little.

Most dietary supplements can be taken with or without foods, but sometimes taking them on an empty stomach causes heartburn or an upset stomach. Foods can change how you absorb certain nutrients -- sometime that's good and sometimes that's bad.
http://nutrition.about.com/od/dietsforme...tomach.htm

3) Do you think 12 hours is too far apart between dosages? I was thinking to add 2 more PM capsules at midday sometime to keep a steady supply of PM in my body. Do you think it would HELP?-
There is interesting thread about the 1/2 life of PM,
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=14002&highlight=Half+ife+of+Pm

4) I'm taking SP and Spearmint as anti-androgens... This might sound like a weird question but if I'm still getting erections that means it's not suppressing the testosterone enough...meaning I should maybe increase the dosage... is that right?

My .02 cents on SP, it effects the estrogen levels, this is commented by Abi our resident science guru, Isabelle, Ceci and others. It prevents the conversion of T to DHT, which DHT is the Libido killer, taken with spearmint is overkill. You can actually consider supplementing with something that already has an Anti-Androgen later. i.e.-Licorice or Peony root-(Licorice - Anti-androgenic and activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar - Strong, but take in moderation! Link with more info.) http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/11/...adiol.html
For now spearmint is a good starter

Saw  palmetto-  Beta-sitosterol is a natural alpha-adrenergic receptor blocker. Specifically, it prevents a degraded form of testosterone called dihydrotestosterone from accumulating in prostate tissue that would otherwise cause excessive cell growth and inflammation. The plant steroids in saw palmetto also act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels. According to the results of a large international trial published in the "Journal of Clinical Oncology" in April 2011, estrogen and progesterone receptor status is a predictive marker of early breast cancer and post-treatment relapse.

5) Do you think that PABA is enough in the swanson capsule I'm taking(see above)?

PABA -(Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen)
Probably to soon for you to add PABA

I know it's only been 3 weeks and it will take time on everything but I'm just trying to set myself up here in the beginning for the best overall results... Thanks SO MUCH for any help!!! I really enjoy reading all of these posts all the time!!!

There is so much to learn, take a look at the NBE guide for Bio-Males, of course you'll have comments to contradict what I'm saying, but what do I know!

Great job Sammie and ClaraKay, much respect and love!!

[GoneGirl]

My .02 cents on SP, it effects the estrogen levels, this is commented by Abi our resident science guru, Isabelle, Ceci and others. It prevents the conversion of T to DHT, which DHT is the Libido killer, taken with spearmint is overkill. You can actually consider supple that already contain Anti-Androgen later, i.e.-Licorice or Peony root
For now spearmint is a good starter

[myboobs]

Welcome newbie to boobage journey .
3 weeks !! Don't expect boobs to grow overnight . It is a long marathon.
I am an ameture at dosage etc but there many here who are very knolegable especially lotus .
I would read various thread for information .
Best wishes

[Lisa Lou]

Welcome Blue! You and I are roughly on the same timeline and dosage track for now, so it will be interesting to compare notes with you every once in a while. Our physical traits are a little different, I am 6'2", 175 lbs, and maybe a little older than you (at least chronologically! ), but it will be interesting to track progress with each other.

I won't add anything to what has been said already, just wanted to say welcome to a wonderful group of folks. Hell, they even accept me, so I'm sure you will be welcome to the fold!
Mistress L is, in my opinion, the goddess of NBE. Samantha is wise way beyond her flippant, 'devil may care' actress facade (don't tell her I said this, but she is such a vamp!). Clara is way more intelligent (and attractive) than she lets on, she poses as a "beginner," but don't let that fool ya. Also, FYI, I consider all 3 my sisters, and I'm the butch/bitch of the crowd, so be nice to them!

Not to exclude anyone, there are other wonderful members of the forum who are more than willing to share their knowledge, wisdom, and experiences.

Welcome, happy growing and good luck,
Lisa

[myboobs]

Welcome Blue! You and I are roughly on the same timeline and dosage track for now, so it will be interesting to compare notes with you every once in a while. Our physical traits are a little different, I am 6'2", 175 lbs, and maybe a little older than you (at least chronologically! ), but it will be interesting to track progress with each other.

I won't add anything to what has been said already, just wanted to say welcome to a wonderful group of folks. Hell, they even accept me, so I'm sure you will be welcome to the fold!
Mistress L is, in my opinion, the goddess of NBE. Samantha is wise way beyond her flippant, 'devil may care' actress facade (don't tell her I said this, but she is such a vamp!). Clara is way more intelligent (and attractive) than she lets on, she poses as a "beginner," but don't let that fool ya. Also, FYI, I consider all 3 my sisters, and I'm the butch/bitch of the crowd, so be nice to them!

Not to exclude anyone, there are other wonderful members of the forum who are more than willing to share their knowledge, wisdom, and experiences.

Welcome, happy growing and good luck,
Lisa

Lol @ butch bitch I am gona slap all them 3 butts :p

[blue77green]

Wow! I REALLY APPRECIATE the well informed responses! I'll adhere to some of that advice for sure! Thanks! I wanted to take the SP for the anti-androgen properties but another big factor for taking that was for the DHT factor. I've always had a full head of hair but recently I've started to develop the ugliness known as male pattern baldness. I've been losing hair on the crown of my head so a degree, while most everywhere else is ok. I'm taking for that reason as well. I'm a little worried about long term usage though. I'm not worried about libido... Just any other adverse side effects. Has anyone here used SP for years and years who could comment?

[GoneGirl]

That was another pleasant surprise for me after starting on PM over 3 months ago. After about 2 months, I noticed that my scalp hair (I'm 50% bald on top) starting to grow back. No anti-DHT herbs, just PM. That got me to thinking that if I drove my DHT down further, I could recover a fair amount of hair on my head.

Imagining myself on TV showing my before and after head shots with beautiful girls gazing at me with longing eyes....

(slapping face to come out of reverie )

Anyway, I've added Pygeum to my plan to attack my DHT. Pygeum lowers the amount of 5-alpha reductase in circulation which is required to convert testosterone to DHT. Saw Palmetto has the same effect, and also shrinks your prostate (Pygeum won't).

Perfect solution for balding? Yes, if you don't mind growing breasts, too!

Clara