You are far from clueless my dear, maybe it's me being dense here. Obviously the only way to tell for sure and how much is a serum total testosterone test.

As far as how much do you have to aromatase it's roughly 2% of which is free and the rest is bound, even at reduced levels that's how it breaks down.

That's why we a have the free T-boosting supplements capitalizing out there.

I get it, if your nuts are shrunk, lol, how are they producing enough T to covert, but that's the best way I can explain it. What amount can only be verified by a test

Lotus, honey, thanks for trying. I didn't really expect anyone to have an answer, honest, nor do I expect you to.
I, along with everyone, bow humbly to your extensive knowledge and understanding of this of oh so difficult subject matter in general. We bask in your light! You are the best!
But this question occurred to me not just in relation to myself, but as an important hypothetical of concern to any long time user. How can we make breasts continue to grow if our body's ability to produce T is reduced beyond a certain point? Since E comes from T, correct? So no T equals no E equals no more booby growth. Is there another source of E besides what is created by aromatase from T? This, if I am on the right track, becomes an important question, n'est pas?

How can we make breasts continue to grow if our body's ability to produce T is reduced beyond a certain point? Since E comes from T, correct? So no T equals no E equals no more booby growth. Is there another source of E besides what is created by aromatase from T? This, if I am on the right track, becomes an important question, n'est pas?

Sammie, I think you're right in concept. Transsexual women who undergo SRS need to take synthetic estrogen for the rest of their lives. Unuchs (castrated males) survive on just the testosterone produced in the adrenals. Last time I looked, they don't grow breasts of any significance. For us, taking PM for example, I doubt the testes atrophy so much that they stop producing testosterone. Very little (free) testosterone is needed by the male body. Remember, the normal male produces way more T than is needed. Most of it gets bound up in SHBG and albumin.

Clara

Thanks Clara,

I was just gonna say that I don't T can be completely be eliminated without having some kind of un-healthy imbalance. Even though what we are doing isn't completely healthy either!


For me, slowing the breakdown of E as long as possible make better sense, PABA seems that would be the best choice. That's why I don't think I need an anti-androgens, it was tested and it was low, they put me on T.


Good debate!

Well then, girls, following that line, we don't then need the extra E produced by aromatase (there isn't enough T for aromatase to create E anyway now), so long as we supplement with PM to compensate the overall E. Right? And we don't need an anti andro. So, perhaps, at my point, all that is needed is PM plus something like Paba to retard the breakdown of E and extend it's usefulness. Does that sound plausible?

Thanks Clara,

I was just gonna say that I don't T can be completely be eliminated without having some kind of un-healthy imbalance. Even though what we are doing isn't completely healthy either!


For me, slowing the breakdown of E as long as possible make better sense, PABA seems that would be the best choice. That's why I don't think I need an anti-androgens, it was tested and it was low, they put me on T.


Good debate!

I added Pygeum to my PM + Spearmint regimen this week. I want to lower my DHT. Even if you are on T shots or patches, Lotus, I would think you would want to keep your DHT in check because it negates the effect of whatever estradiol you have. I will add PABA down the road, too. Thoughts?

Clara

Yes, now all we have to worry about is E dominance!,

Clara,

I like that you're trying pygeum, when you get a chance could you post your info for our members about it?




Btw, it's been sometime that I was on TRT

Yes, now all we have to worry about is E dominance!,

Yes, Clara, but...but...DHT comes from T right? So would not someone with already negligible T have nothing that could convert to T and hence no need to block T? It seems too simple...and yet...maybe I should just stick to shopping...sigh

Well then, girls, following that line, we don't then need the extra E produced by aromatase (there isn't enough T for aromatase to create E anyway now), so long as we supplement with PM to compensate the overall E. Right? And we don't need an anti andro. So, perhaps, at my point, all that is needed is PM plus something like Paba to retard the breakdown of E and extend it's usefulness. Does that sound plausible?

Interesting line of reasoning, Sammie dear. I always thought that was a good rationale for beginners. I think after a couple of years, when breast growth stalls, adding anti-androgens is necessary to counteract DHT, the estrogen killer. PABA is only going to go so far if there's a lot of DHT present, especially if you are trying to attain other feminizations, like reducing body hair, softer skin, halting scalp hair loss, etc.

What am I missing here?

Clara

Yes, now all we have to worry about is E dominance!,

Yes, Clara, but...but...DHT comes from T right? So would not someone with already negligible T have nothing that could convert to T and hence no need to block T? It seems too simple...and yet...maybe I should just stick to shopping...sigh

Agreed, lower T will deprive 5-alpha reductase the raw material to produce DHT, so DHT levels drop, too. But, by how much? I think DHT level stay plenty high to maintain baldness, body hair, etc. And, unless you literally cut off a man's balls, he's going to produce T.

The reasons for suffering low T could be caused by other imbalances in the endrocrin system. For example, as a man gains weight, the fatty tissues produce estrogen. The body tries to compensate by reducing the amount of T. The testes are capable of producing more T, but the pituitary doesn't call for it.

There are very complex feedback/feedforward mechanisms involved here which I'm only beginning to understand. Like you I want to learn more. Keep challenging, Sammie. As Lotus said, "Good debate."

Clara