I've been lurking here for a few weeks, and finally have the chance to ask a question.
In the “How often do you ‘dress’” thread, I saw the following quotes:
Samantha: Adding E to the chemistry of a bio male causes, reportedly, one of two different reactions. If you do not have genuine TG tendencies you will likely not like how you start to feel. You may experience anxiety etc. But if you do have TG feelings then you will become more contended and your sense of well being will increase.
Clara: But, you have to watch out for the false negatives. It's not unusual to feel panic when physical changes begin. It doesn't necessarily mean you have no TG leanings. Best to stay with the program until you are sure. Early mental and physical changes are largely reversible.
My question is what do you think are the chances of a false positive? That is, if adding E makes you feel better, what are the chances that you’re *not* TG?
Thanks!
Jim
In the “How often do you ‘dress’” thread, I saw the following quotes:
Samantha: Adding E to the chemistry of a bio male causes, reportedly, one of two different reactions. If you do not have genuine TG tendencies you will likely not like how you start to feel. You may experience anxiety etc. But if you do have TG feelings then you will become more contended and your sense of well being will increase.
Clara: But, you have to watch out for the false negatives. It's not unusual to feel panic when physical changes begin. It doesn't necessarily mean you have no TG leanings. Best to stay with the program until you are sure. Early mental and physical changes are largely reversible.
My question is what do you think are the chances of a false positive? That is, if adding E makes you feel better, what are the chances that you’re *not* TG?
Thanks!
Jim
Hello Jim.
Welcome to the board.
I'm not sure if the answer to your question can be quantified.
Hypothetically, I suppose if a bio-male has far too much testosterone (beyond the norm for the typical bio-male), adding estrogen may improve his health and well-being without him being TG. Once though a more normal hormonal balance is achieved though, adding more estrogen to the mix may make him feel anxious, depressed, etc.
Another possibility I imagine is a bio-male who fantasizes about becoming a woman for superficial reasons (having breasts to constantly fondle, partaking in a lesbian orgy, etc.), but has no genuine desire to live as a woman. Taking estrogen at first may make him feel better because of his feminization fantasies, but reality would quickly hit home I suspect.
I would consider cases like this to be the exception rather than the norm. I think the vast majority of non-TG individuals would be embarrassed if not deeply disturbed about developing physical characteristics of the opposite sex, whether it be breast growth for bio-males or facial hair growth for genetic females.
If taking estrogen makes you feel better over the long run, I think there's a pretty good chance that you have TG characteristics to some extent.
Welcome to the board.
(06-02-2014, 07:41 AM)AccidentalTourist Wrote: My question is what do you think are the chances of a false positive? That is, if adding E makes you feel better, what are the chances that you’re *not* TG?
I'm not sure if the answer to your question can be quantified.
Hypothetically, I suppose if a bio-male has far too much testosterone (beyond the norm for the typical bio-male), adding estrogen may improve his health and well-being without him being TG. Once though a more normal hormonal balance is achieved though, adding more estrogen to the mix may make him feel anxious, depressed, etc.
Another possibility I imagine is a bio-male who fantasizes about becoming a woman for superficial reasons (having breasts to constantly fondle, partaking in a lesbian orgy, etc.), but has no genuine desire to live as a woman. Taking estrogen at first may make him feel better because of his feminization fantasies, but reality would quickly hit home I suspect.
I would consider cases like this to be the exception rather than the norm. I think the vast majority of non-TG individuals would be embarrassed if not deeply disturbed about developing physical characteristics of the opposite sex, whether it be breast growth for bio-males or facial hair growth for genetic females.
If taking estrogen makes you feel better over the long run, I think there's a pretty good chance that you have TG characteristics to some extent.
This post was last modified: 06-02-2014, 02:21 PM by flamesabers.
Good answer, Flame. There have been members here who have received false positives. I won't mention any names, but anyone who has read past postings know they exist. Sometimes the realization occurs fairly early, while in other instances much later. It seems to me that the false negatives flare up early in the program, whereas the false positives tend to be discovered later.
I can imagine that estogenic herbs, like PM, would stanch the compulsive urge to masturbate even in a non-TG male. This could be interpreted as a positive development. However, the other feminization effects that occur later may lead to considerable concern and ultimately regret.
Since the first signs of breast growth occur within the first couple of months, I would expect a false positive to be revealed in that time frame (2 to 3 months in).
Just my guess. "You may be right, I may be crazy." --Billy Joel
Clara
I can imagine that estogenic herbs, like PM, would stanch the compulsive urge to masturbate even in a non-TG male. This could be interpreted as a positive development. However, the other feminization effects that occur later may lead to considerable concern and ultimately regret.
Since the first signs of breast growth occur within the first couple of months, I would expect a false positive to be revealed in that time frame (2 to 3 months in).
Just my guess. "You may be right, I may be crazy." --Billy Joel
Clara
(06-02-2014, 03:03 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: I can imagine that estogenic herbs, like PM, would stanch the compulsive urge to masturbate even in a non-TG male. This could be interpreted as a positive development. However, the other feminization effects that occur later may lead to considerable concern and ultimately regret.
In regards to pm stopping the compulsive urge to masturbate, I think the crucial question is whether the average non-TG male would welcome, be indifferent or abhor such a change. It's not unreasonable I think that some bio-males would want to taper down their libidio for non-TG motives: religious beliefs, marital fidelity, or simply wanting to have one less distraction in life to name a few.
Jim, if you're having doubts about whether you are TG or not, I think there are a variety of questions you can ask yourself to assess how much (if any) of TG leanings do you have.
For example:
Do you have a male ego that shuns all things feminine?
How would you feel if someone referred to you using a feminine pronoun?
Do you feel your gender identity is not in sync with your physical sex?
Speaking from personal experience and observation, I believe that for many, a suspected transgender condition can be difficult to confirm. Hence, the false positives and negatives.
Oftentimes men who have a subconscious female gender identity will attempt to suppress it through hyper-masculine behaviors accompanied with very anti-feminine attitudes. It's a defense mechanism against acknowledging to oneself something considered unacceptable, and a fear that it will be detected and exposed to the world. The reactionary behaviors and attitudes usually originate from deep within the subconscious. Being referred to by a feminine pronoun would also evoke a strong negative reaction in these individuals.
Men who suppress feminine leanings suffer gender dysphoria in ways which are not easily recognized as being caused by a mismatch of their assigned sex and gender sense. I say this because I fit this condition fairly well myself, and it generally means that one's male/female gender identity is close to an even split. In such situations, it can be difficult to uncover, much less resolve the male vs. female identity conflict.
It's likely that the majority of gender dysphoric men fall into this conflicted group. Many, I'm sure, never come to grips with their feminine half, and suffer for years as a result. It's mostly because of ignorance and the lack of awareness by the general populace that transgenderism is a relatively common condition among both men and women.
Those who land in the middle of the gender spectrum will often experience the false positive that the OP is questioning. It may be very difficult for a guy, late in life to accept and adjust to an emerging feminine persona even though the feminine gender identity is quite strong.
I think if a person suspects a transgender personality, it's worthwhile ferreting out the truth. Therapy + HRT is a proven method of doing so. In an informal way, that's what we on this board are engaged in.
Clara
Oftentimes men who have a subconscious female gender identity will attempt to suppress it through hyper-masculine behaviors accompanied with very anti-feminine attitudes. It's a defense mechanism against acknowledging to oneself something considered unacceptable, and a fear that it will be detected and exposed to the world. The reactionary behaviors and attitudes usually originate from deep within the subconscious. Being referred to by a feminine pronoun would also evoke a strong negative reaction in these individuals.
Men who suppress feminine leanings suffer gender dysphoria in ways which are not easily recognized as being caused by a mismatch of their assigned sex and gender sense. I say this because I fit this condition fairly well myself, and it generally means that one's male/female gender identity is close to an even split. In such situations, it can be difficult to uncover, much less resolve the male vs. female identity conflict.
It's likely that the majority of gender dysphoric men fall into this conflicted group. Many, I'm sure, never come to grips with their feminine half, and suffer for years as a result. It's mostly because of ignorance and the lack of awareness by the general populace that transgenderism is a relatively common condition among both men and women.
Those who land in the middle of the gender spectrum will often experience the false positive that the OP is questioning. It may be very difficult for a guy, late in life to accept and adjust to an emerging feminine persona even though the feminine gender identity is quite strong.
I think if a person suspects a transgender personality, it's worthwhile ferreting out the truth. Therapy + HRT is a proven method of doing so. In an informal way, that's what we on this board are engaged in.
Clara
Thank you to everyone who replied!
I’m sorry to being somewhat vague, but I didn’t want to influence any replies.
You all tended to confirm my suspicions--that there’s a good chance that I am transgendered, given your answers,
As my name suggests, I’m a little surprised, and hadn’t figured on this.
A little background to fill things in: I’m 59, married for 30 years, and our 25 year old son still lives at home with us. I’m short (currently about 5’ 9”), balding on top (and what’s left is gray), and overweight (at 250 now, down from 310 a few years ago). I’m an embedded software engineer, and look like it. I figured I was a pretty unlikely candidate to be TG.
So, how did I end up here? I’ll try to make the long story short, at least for now.
About six weeks ago, I started taking red clover and vitex, trying to just make my nipples a little more sensitive (why is a story for another time). I came across this site, among a number of others, researching, getting ideas for other herbs I might try.
Well, the herbs worked (although I haven’t tried PM). What I didn’t figure on was that after a few weeks, I noticed that I also felt better in general: more relaxed, at ease, more outgoing. It also seemed like parts of my brain were “lighting up” that I wasn’t fully aware I had. I thought I might be imagining this, but my wife told me I did seem nicer to be around, in general. (And, yes, I’ve noticed changes “down there”, but my wife hasn’t really picked up on it, and I’m pretty furry, so she hasn’t picked up on the other changes, either.)
So, given my current life situation (and for the foreseeable future), I can’t physically change much more. On the other hand, I really like how I feel. (It’s gotten to where I can tell that I need to take more during the day.) How do I handle that? (Even if I'd like to do more, I really can't, and I realize that.)
And how do I handle the fact that I’m probably TG? Where do I go from here? I really need to keep this low-key, so I think counseling is out for now (besides, from comments I’ve seen here, I’m not sure how much help that would be).
(On a technical note, does anyone know a way to use Tor from an Android phone to login here? Orweb doesn’t appear to allow that (I’m guessing a problem with cookies), so that I can only read, but not post here most of the day.)
Thanks!
Jim (and in keeping with the custom here, should I come up with a name?)
I’m sorry to being somewhat vague, but I didn’t want to influence any replies.
You all tended to confirm my suspicions--that there’s a good chance that I am transgendered, given your answers,
As my name suggests, I’m a little surprised, and hadn’t figured on this.
A little background to fill things in: I’m 59, married for 30 years, and our 25 year old son still lives at home with us. I’m short (currently about 5’ 9”), balding on top (and what’s left is gray), and overweight (at 250 now, down from 310 a few years ago). I’m an embedded software engineer, and look like it. I figured I was a pretty unlikely candidate to be TG.
So, how did I end up here? I’ll try to make the long story short, at least for now.
About six weeks ago, I started taking red clover and vitex, trying to just make my nipples a little more sensitive (why is a story for another time). I came across this site, among a number of others, researching, getting ideas for other herbs I might try.
Well, the herbs worked (although I haven’t tried PM). What I didn’t figure on was that after a few weeks, I noticed that I also felt better in general: more relaxed, at ease, more outgoing. It also seemed like parts of my brain were “lighting up” that I wasn’t fully aware I had. I thought I might be imagining this, but my wife told me I did seem nicer to be around, in general. (And, yes, I’ve noticed changes “down there”, but my wife hasn’t really picked up on it, and I’m pretty furry, so she hasn’t picked up on the other changes, either.)
So, given my current life situation (and for the foreseeable future), I can’t physically change much more. On the other hand, I really like how I feel. (It’s gotten to where I can tell that I need to take more during the day.) How do I handle that? (Even if I'd like to do more, I really can't, and I realize that.)
And how do I handle the fact that I’m probably TG? Where do I go from here? I really need to keep this low-key, so I think counseling is out for now (besides, from comments I’ve seen here, I’m not sure how much help that would be).
(On a technical note, does anyone know a way to use Tor from an Android phone to login here? Orweb doesn’t appear to allow that (I’m guessing a problem with cookies), so that I can only read, but not post here most of the day.)
Thanks!
Jim (and in keeping with the custom here, should I come up with a name?)
Jim,
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a straightforward answer to your dilemma. There have been members who wanted the same things you do, get the mental benefits from the NBE herbs without incurring noticeable physical feminization. Byrony is one such member that comes to mind, but she hasn't posted here in quite a while.
You could try to limit your doses to get the mental benefits without growing breasts. However, my advice has always been that if getting breasts is too much of a problem for you, it's best to avoid NBE herbs altogether. Considering your age and weight, you could always try to pass off your breast development as moobs. I would still recommend though you talk to your wife first about what you're doing and why. I think the fact she has already noticed a positive change in your behavior suggests she may be okay with you taking NBE herbs. Still, I think it's important to keep her in the loop on this and find out what she's comfortable with and what her boundaries are.
Being TG doesn't mean you have to transition or come out of the closest so to speak with all of your family, friends and co-workers. Some members try to keep it low-key for fear of reprisal, but use this forum as a sort of group therapy. For you, it may mean you take NBE herbs to improve your well-being and it's just something only you and your wife know about.
I don't have an android phone, so I can't give you any tech support in that regard.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a straightforward answer to your dilemma. There have been members who wanted the same things you do, get the mental benefits from the NBE herbs without incurring noticeable physical feminization. Byrony is one such member that comes to mind, but she hasn't posted here in quite a while.
You could try to limit your doses to get the mental benefits without growing breasts. However, my advice has always been that if getting breasts is too much of a problem for you, it's best to avoid NBE herbs altogether. Considering your age and weight, you could always try to pass off your breast development as moobs. I would still recommend though you talk to your wife first about what you're doing and why. I think the fact she has already noticed a positive change in your behavior suggests she may be okay with you taking NBE herbs. Still, I think it's important to keep her in the loop on this and find out what she's comfortable with and what her boundaries are.
Being TG doesn't mean you have to transition or come out of the closest so to speak with all of your family, friends and co-workers. Some members try to keep it low-key for fear of reprisal, but use this forum as a sort of group therapy. For you, it may mean you take NBE herbs to improve your well-being and it's just something only you and your wife know about.
I don't have an android phone, so I can't give you any tech support in that regard.
I second Flame's response to your situation, Jim. From my experience you may be able to get the mental benefits on a fairly low dose of estogenic herbal supplements (I use Pueraria Mirifica). For me, 1000 mg/day is insufficient for breast growth, but does maintain most of the mental benefits I've come to love. If you are TG, though, there is a chance even a low dosage will enable certain areas of the brain that will draw you further down the path to transitioning. It's impossible to accurately predict the way you'll react.
Clara
Clara
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