[Lisa Lou]

Sammie,

Sending positive and encouraging thoughts. I can only imagine the stress. She had to more than appreciate your honesty and frankness, and the fact that you wanted to spare her the issues of coping with it for so long.

We're here for you sister.

Lots of hugs,
Lisa

[Samantha Rogers]

Sammie,

Sending positive and encouraging thoughts. I can only imagine the stress. She had to more than appreciate your honesty and frankness, and the fact that you wanted to spare her the issues of coping with it for so long.

We're here for you sister.

Lots of hugs,
Lisa

Well, Lisa, you would think that would be a factor, but right now I believe she is trying to come to terms with the shock (I cannot even imagine), coupled with the knowledge that I deceived her for all those years and what that says about me AND what it says about her (that she never realized or even suspected). I tried to make clear that twenty years ago I had no clear understanding of this, and that I had tried for years to "make it go away" hopefully, that will mean something. She is a great person, but this is way, way outside her comfort zone or normal skill set. It is a waiting situation now. That makes things tough on me, as apprehensive as I am, but it is what I just have to do. That and pray, I guess, if I knew who or what to pray to. Thanks for everything, Sis.

[Samantha Rogers]

Well, since I have used this board relentlessly as a source of support and therapy, I guess there is no reason to stop now...
Perhaps, down the road, someone else will glean some assistance from this...
Monday passed with no discussion from my wife, as I assumed it might. I have given her as much space as I can to deal with and try to digest the bomb I dropped on her on Sunday. Her mood, as we dealt with normal living in a house with two offspring has been one of feined normalcy. She runs deep, and has never been one to relish frank and open discussion of difficult and painful psychological issues. And, although she has a beautiful heart, she also possesses a wicked, unpredictable and terrifying mediterranean temper, and has issues of her own she hasnever been able or willing to discuss or work through. My fear is that she will not return to this in discussion, but rather simply try to ignore the (pink) elephant in the room, and that things will simply fester and become poisonous. But I do not honestly know what will come, and she may very well not know either. The last thing I want to do at present is to add even more pressure by forcing a conversation. The waiting, though, is tough, to say the least. I can expect no better, and I know this.
And, I know this process is right and needed...finally...as well as I can know anything, right now, I suppose...but it sure is not easy... If I may have the temerity to suggest anything to anyone at this point it would be this...as terrifying as complete honesty with loved ones (and with ourselves) may be...it is the only right thing to do, whatever the consequences may be. If this causes me to lose what I have, then I expect I never really had it to begin with...
To quote the late great Jim Morrison, "the future's uncertain and the end is always near"
Hugs

[ZOE]

Dear Samantha,

Without seeming pretentious, I would like to add my thoughts along with those of your sisters'.

Although you don't know me well yet, I feel I know you through reading your many posts on this forum. I know you to be unendingly supportive, insightful and giving.

So, now I give you strength, support and wishes for you and your wife to find happiness and understanding (whatever that may mean).

Fondly,

Zoe

[AnnieBL]

Well, since I have used this board relentlessly as a source of support and therapy, I guess there is no reason to stop now...
Perhaps, down the road, someone else will glean some assistance from this...
Monday passed with no discussion from my wife, as I assumed it might. I have given her as much space as I can to deal with and try to digest the bomb I dropped on her on Sunday. Her mood, as we dealt with normal living in a house with two offspring has been one of feined normalcy. She runs deep, and has never been one to relish frank and open discussion of difficult and painful psychological issues. And, although she has a beautiful heart, she also possesses a wicked, unpredictable and terrifying mediterranean temper, and has issues of her own she hasnever been able or willing to discuss or work through. My fear is that she will not return to this in discussion, but rather simply try to ignore the (pink) elephant in the room, and that things will simply fester and become poisonous. But I do not honestly know what will come, and she may very well not know either. The last thing I want to do at present is to add even more pressure by forcing a conversation. The waiting, though, is tough, to say the least. I can expect no better, and I know this.
And, I know this process is right and needed...finally...as well as I can know anything, right now, I suppose...but it sure is not easy... If I may have the temerity to suggest anything to anyone at this point it would be this...as terrifying as complete honesty with loved ones (and with ourselves) may be...it is the only right thing to do, whatever the consequences may be. If this causes me to lose what I have, then I expect I never really had it to begin with...
To quote the late great Jim Morrison, "the future's uncertain and the end is always near"
Hugs

Sammie,

You have spoken earlier of your friendship with your wife. It is in situations like this that such a friendship can become very important in preserving your relationship. My wife and myself were good friends for seventeen years before we became lovers. She has a very volatile temper, she is very strong willed and says that I am, and we fight like cat and dog on occasion (verbally), but the friendship has at least to date always carried us through. I obviously can't speak for any situation but my own, but both of us have a substantial degree of insecurity which gets brought to the surface in situations such as we are considering, and identifying areas of concern and working to provide reassurance to one's other half seems to me be the best way forward.

When we were moving forward into marriage, I tried to 'come clean' on my sexual past, although I did not then have as much understanding as I have now, and I was particularly concerned about my homosexual hookups. I didn't get very far along before she stopped me. She said that she believed that excessive frankness over one's sexual history seemed to be destructive rather than otherwise (which has indeed been the case with at least two ex-couples that we know well), the past was the past, and made me agree that if either of us strayed from then straight and narrow we would as far as possible keep it to ourselves. To the best of my knowledge and belief neither of us has ever been unfaithful.

Recent developments in my life have of course raised a whole new dimension that I felt I had to address, but somehow although there has been significant disclosure, the discussion never seems to get very far, a nd I tend to get comments like 'you've already told me that'. The 'Dear Abby' column that I've previously referenced had her agreeing with the position of the wife being advised. She does play with my breasts, sometimes rather roughly, and the other morning leaned over, bit one of my nipples through my shirt, and when I yelped she smirked. I don't think that she is really comfortable with what I'm doing, but is not going to object so long as I don't force it down her throat or move too far towards transition. How does that have a bearing on your situation? Perhaps you could take the line that you understand her discomfort and you're not going to force anything down her throat nor are you about to do anything that will really change the status quo, but there were some things you thought she deserved to know and you needed to tell her.

Probably useless advice. but the best I can come up with - and the friendship is such an important factor.

Hugs from Annie (rather than Hannibal which is what my grandfather suggested I should be christened).

[Samantha Rogers]

Thanks, Annie and Zoe. I really appreciate friendly support right now.
Tonight has been hopefully positive.
Life in our household passed as on any normal night, with even a conversation with distant relatives planning a visit this summer and without any hint of a reason why such a visit might be unwise. Perfectly normal. Other than that pink elephant, that is.
Still, as you observed, Annie, our friendship has always been strong, so there is hope on my part tonight. Still, I do have some doubt that this relationship will ever allow for (stretching a metaphor way too far) the kind of sharing of the elephant sometimes found in some fortunate couples. By that I mean it seems more likely we will arrive at some kind of DADT situation, of unspoken understanding rather than one in which we enjoy, say, joint facials followed by shopping for dresses together. If that is the case, and the alternative is losing her, I can live with it.
One day at a time, girls. One day at a time.
Hugs
PS - I feel like I should rename this thread "Days of Sammie's Lives".
PS Did I mention I was on Ryans's Hope years ago? Really...tee hee...back when I was young and pretty.

[Samantha Rogers]

One last post script for tonight...I have now been without an anti androgen for several days. No SP for a long time (well over a week and closer to two), and not even the comparatively (I believe) weaker Spearmint tea since Friday. Just PM, Fish Oil, and (since yesterday) Peony Root. I even discontinued PC on Saturday. The upshot...I am beginning to feel long forgotten stirrings in my "boy bits". And, the desire to "dress again is returning strongly. Of course the latter may simply be induced by memories of how much I enjoyed dressing for the photo shot last week. Tee hee... That was so much fun!

[Lisa Lou]

Hey Sis,
Sometimes with our friends, lovers, SOs, and family members we adopt an "agree to disagree" position on certain things. Those things are recognized as not being of a magnitude to destroy the relationship or cause you to part ways, but still remain as a point of disagreement. Depending on where you and your wife are on this, you may both recognize it as something that you recognize that you have different positions, respect but don't agree with those different positions, and move on with your lives. However, the agree to disagree element has to be discussed, mutually agreed upon, boundaries set, etc. It just can't be the (pink) elephant in the room that no one discusses or recognizes.

I hate to say this sis, but I think you know that for your own piece of mind it cannot be avoided. Conflict avoidance only tends to breed resentment, distrust, misunderstanding, etc., etc. When I counseled couples in my 'man of the cloth' days I always encouraged them to discuss and reach terms on things they disagreed on and knew they would never reach a point of agreement. Your wife sounds like a classic conflict avoider, and you, my dear are clearly a communicator who cannot keep an issue in. Trust me, honey, it has been on her mind as much as yours, she has probably confided in someone close to her, and it will come out... and if you both allow it to fester, when it comes out from her, it ain't going to be pretty.

So, my dear, for your own sanity (and hers), it has to be addressed, sooner rather than later. I'm here for ya as are all of your sisters. I have a couple of discussion techniques I can recommend, PM me if you want to discuss.

You continue to be in my thoughts.

Not that we would want to, but for better or for worse, where many of us are right now, 'you can't put the genie back in the bottle...'

Hugs and good thoughts,
Lisa

[Samantha Rogers]

Thanks, Lisa. You are such a good friend, and I love you to death.
You hit the nail right on the head with your appraisal of the two of us. And I am not unaware of any of that (especially about Sammie needing to communicat...tee hee...how do you know me so well?). At the moment, and clearly, for just the moment, honey, my nerves are happy just for a temporary return to an appearance of normality. But I am not by any means fooling myself that this is all over, honest. But on the plus side, she is behaving in ways that I know from past experience indicate she is still my friend, and has no intention of walking out, at least for now. We are still sleeping in the same bed, and she still snuggles against me comfortably at night. I am taking that as a very good sign.
I know the elephant cannot be ignored for long, and I realize that if she does not broach the topic I will need to do so again eventually. But for now I do not want to rock the boat or force the issue in any way. This is a big enough shock and I am sure she needs a little time to process it. In the meantime, I have begun looking for a good tg friendly counselor or therapist, for myself, so as to be proactive in this, but also so that I may locate some kind of support for her if and when she is willing and able to accept that assistance.
But, at least for just right now, and while I am well aware there will undoubtedly be rough waters ahead of some kind, I am cautiously optimistic. She is my best friend. I am hoping that remains the case.
But, again, sis, thanks for holding my hand. Your concern has me crying a little this morning...
Hugs

[AnnieBL]

Hey Sis,
Sometimes with our friends, lovers, SOs, and family members we adopt an "agree to disagree" position on certain things. Those things are recognized as not being of a magnitude to destroy the relationship or cause you to part ways, but still remain as a point of disagreement. Depending on where you and your wife are on this, you may both recognize it as something that you recognize that you have different positions, respect but don't agree with those different positions, and move on with your lives. However, the agree to disagree element has to be discussed, mutually agreed upon, boundaries set, etc. It just can't be the (pink) elephant in the room that no one discusses or recognizes.

Thank you so much, Lisa. I also found your post both illuminating and immensely helpful.

When I think about it, the essence of marriage is a union between two very different persons, and a successful marriage is full of accommodations relating to many different issues, some arrived at only painfully, but most such issues are not as big as an elephant, let alone a pink elephant. I'm hoping that my wife and myself can complete an arrangement to accommodate the elephant but we still may have a way to go. Your warning not to allow things to fester is well taken.

On a lighter note, and by a strange coincidence, the Landrover in which I drove to Pakistan so many years ago had had what appeared to be pink elephants blazoned on its front doors, though these had been more or less painted out by the time I bought it. It had previously been driven to Burma on an expedition Second Overland, by two members of the first expedition (First Overland) to drive overland from England to Singapore, in search of a rumoured white elephant, which in the event turned out in fact to be a real live PINK ELEPHANT.

Hugs again from Annie for you and Sammie.