[waeg123]

Hello, I just recently discovered this whole world of natural male breast enhancement, and it has got me seriously thinking about it.

I'm a crossdresser. I've wanted to do it since I was very young (8-10). Crossdressing or thinking about it gives me an erection, but also relieves stress. However I don't masturbate about it (actually, I never masturbate). And those feelings now have increased. In no way do I want to be a full woman. I want to have a wife and children, and live a normal-ish life. But it's like I have another half that desperately wants to express itself, as it has been repressed for decades. However, just thinking about me with breasts just seems...right. And now I'm thinking about it constantly, and not only when I'm aroused. So I have some questions:

Am I the type of person (based on my above description) that this would be right for?

If you stop taking enhancements (I would only use pills and massage) how much breast growth is reversible?

How well can you hide breasts (I would only go for B, maybe C when I won't care about hiding, and I'm 5'7, 133 pounds, 27 approx waist)?

Since I want to marry a woman at some point, should I wait until I find this person so I can tell her about my desires after we've already fallen in love (hopefully), or would it still be easy (relatively) to get dates/girlfriends with (concealed?) breasts, or are women generally not accepting of it?

Once the breasts start growing, is there a disadvantage to not wearing a bra? For instance, will wearing a bra prevent sagging? Because I want to wait until I have achieved optimal growth, then get a bra fitting in a store if it's possible.

I've seen a lot of references to a specific site that sells PM (Ainetol?). Is the PM there different than PM that would be sold in health food stores or vitamin shops? Because I'd like to start with buying things at stores instead of online.

What are the most effective enhancements that are the least expensive? Basically, I would want moderate-fast growth rate (if I decide to do it). So I think PM, Fenugreek, and daily massage would be enough to grow breasts fairly quickly. Is there anything else that would be very effective? (I also don't want to have 50 things to use)

I've heard that there are a lot of side-effects to PM. Mental changes and feminized body are fine (the latter is something I actually want). However, does that (and Fenugreek) affect sperm? Because my sperm count might be low (I'm only saying this because I never masturbate). Also if I stop using any breast enhancement, will I be able to grow a beard (I can't now, but probably in some years), or will taking it permanently affect those chances?

Also, I don't want to grow conical-looking breasts. Would PM, Fenugreek, and massage be enough for the breasts to be rounded and teardrop-looking?

[DiBi]

Hello, I just recently discovered this whole world of natural male breast enhancement, and it has got me seriously thinking about it.

I'm a crossdresser. I've wanted to do it since I was very young (8-10). Crossdressing or thinking about it gives me an erection, but also relieves stress. However I don't masturbate about it (actually, I never masturbate). And those feelings now have increased. In no way do I want to be a full woman. I want to have a wife and children, and live a normal-ish life. But it's like I have another half that desperately wants to express itself, as it has been repressed for decades. However, just thinking about me with breasts just seems...right. And now I'm thinking about it constantly, and not only when I'm aroused. So I have some questions:

Am I the type of person (based on my above description) that this would be right for?

If you stop taking enhancements (I would only use pills and massage) how much breast growth is reversible?

How well can you hide breasts (I would only go for B, maybe C when I won't care about hiding, and I'm 5'7, 133 pounds, 27 approx waist)?

Since I want to marry a woman at some point, should I wait until I find this person so I can tell her about my desires after we've already fallen in love (hopefully), or would it still be easy (relatively) to get dates/girlfriends with (concealed?) breasts, or are women generally not accepting of it?

Once the breasts start growing, is there a disadvantage to not wearing a bra? For instance, will wearing a bra prevent sagging? Because I want to wait until I have achieved optimal growth, then get a bra fitting in a store if it's possible.

I've seen a lot of references to a specific site that sells PM (Ainetol?). Is the PM there different than PM that would be sold in health food stores or vitamin shops? Because I'd like to start with buying things at stores instead of online.

What are the most effective enhancements that are the least expensive? Basically, I would want moderate-fast growth rate (if I decide to do it). So I think PM, Fenugreek, and daily massage would be enough to grow breasts fairly quickly. Is there anything else that would be very effective? (I also don't want to have 50 things to use)

I've heard that there are a lot of side-effects to PM. Mental changes and feminized body are fine (the latter is something I actually want). However, does that (and Fenugreek) affect sperm? Because my sperm count might be low (I'm only saying this because I never masturbate). Also if I stop using any breast enhancement, will I be able to grow a beard (I can't now, but probably in some years), or will taking it permanently affect those chances?

Also, I don't want to grow conical-looking breasts. Would PM, Fenugreek, and massage be enough for the breasts to be rounded and teardrop-looking?

hi waeg, welcome on board.

not to be nosey, but i think it would help us to answer your questions to know your age, from what you wrote it seems to me you are quite young, and this can make a difference in our suggestions


btw, you may find most of the answers just reading in the various threads in the forum

[waeg123]

hi waeg, welcome on board.

not to be nosey, but i think it would help us to answer your questions to know your age, from what you wrote it seems to me you are quite young, and this can make a difference in our suggestions


btw, you may find most of the answers just reading in the various threads in the forum

I'm 18. I went through most of the posts, and I didn't really see any clear answers to the questions I asked.

[sfem]

At 18, you still have so much of life to experience. I hesitate to recommend embarking on this journey with so little of life tasted. Aside from your other questions, changing your appearance and disposition will most certainly affect how the world perceives you and therefore how people will react to you. It will affect everything from schooling and work opportunities to friendships and relationships. It will likely have profound effects on family relationships. Having said all that, I don't know you, where you live, who your family and friends are. But odds are that this would impact the directions your life can go in a huge way which you most likely can't anticipate.
Nonetheless, we all have choices to make, and you are looking for information to help you make yours. So to your questions...
I can't say if this would be right for you. I think talking to a mental health professional who is TG-friendly might be the best course to take for this question.
Most breast growth is reversible. Only the core of the breast is anything but fat. Fat can be gotten rid of. After you develop the breast enough the core of it is not reversible by any means except surgery as far as I know. Chrishoney or Isabelle or one of the other knowledgeable posters may have more information.
You are thin for a guy. You are also young. Your body probably hasn't fully matured yet, so hiding is something that will be hard to guess at this point. Your weight may change quite a bit as you proceed with this. You should assume you won't be able to hide them after about 6 months, although it's not like you'll be a Dolly Parton lookalike.
The marriage question I can't answer in any useful way. I don't see how anyone can predict your future that way. See my first paragraph.
A proper fitting bra will improve the shape of the breast and perhaps also improve the internal growth by making it easier for things to grow into a desirable shape. This is just my opinion.
People mention web sites because PM is generally not available in stores anywhere.
PM is the herb of choice, for cost and safety and efficacy. Peruse the forum history for thoughts on one herb versus another. Despite your comment, there are plenty of answers to this question in the forum history.
Taking PM shouldn't permanently affect your ability to grow hair. Someone who is a medical professional may want to respond with real information as opposed to my comment which is based on what I have read in places like these forums.
I'm not sure anyone knows for sure if PM or Fenugreek is bad for your sperm. Better safe than sorry seems a sensible approach to this. If you are trying to make a baby, you should probably not take risks that your child has to pay the entire cost for if it goes badly.
The shape of your breasts is affected by a number of factors. I'd suggest making a new thread for that one.

[waeg123]

At 18, you still have so much of life to experience. I hesitate to recommend embarking on this journey with so little of life tasted.

But if I wait a lot, then won't my chances of having nice breasts be decreased?

I think talking to a mental health professional who is TG-friendly might be the best course to take for this question.

Ok, I'm going to college away from where I live now, but I don't know where yet, so there's no point in looking yet. Would I need specifically a gender therapist, or would a normal psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist be okay if I ask if they are TG-friendly? (I also probably wouldn't go there dressed as a girl, since I only do it in private now). Also which one, if so, of those 3 would be best for TG stuff (psychologist, therapist, psychiatrist)?

Most breast growth is reversible. Only the core of the breast is anything but fat. Fat can be gotten rid of. After you develop the breast enough the core of it is not reversible by any means except surgery as far as I know.

In B or C cups, about how much of the breast is this core? And if all the fat is gone, but the core remains, would it look like normal...moobs?

Your weight may change quite a bit as you proceed with this. You should assume you won't be able to hide them after about 6 months, although it's not like you'll be a Dolly Parton lookalike.

What do you mean by my weight would change? And approximately how much growth is there in 6 months? 1 or 1/2 cup size?

People mention web sites because PM is generally not available in stores anywhere.

But if I do find it in a store, it would probably be the same? It's not like the Ainetrol one is good, and every other brand is 80% placebo right?

[sfem]

But if I wait a lot, then won't my chances of having nice breasts be decreased?

No. If looking like a sexy girl is your actual goal, then unless you are planning on full transition you're going to be disappointed. Nice breasts can be achieved later in life. I think a number of us have achieved what I would call nice breasts past our 40's, some of us well past. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, your mileage may vary, etc.

Ok, I'm going to college away from where I live now, but I don't know where yet, so there's no point in looking yet. Would I need specifically a gender therapist, or would a normal psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist be okay if I ask if they are TG-friendly? (I also probably wouldn't go there dressed as a girl, since I only do it in private now). Also which one, if so, of those 3 would be best for TG stuff (psychologist, therapist, psychiatrist)?

I dunno. Perhaps a forum member with some experience with this aspect can respond.

In B or C cups, about how much of the breast is this core? And if all the fat is gone, but the core remains, would it look like normal...moobs?

I dunno. I suppose it would be specific to the individual, but I am thinking you are quite concerned about your appearance. So you should probably assume you will be unhappy with the results if you end up in the state where you have female breast tissue and little to no fat.

What do you mean by my weight would change? And approximately how much growth is there in 6 months? 1 or 1/2 cup size?

As has been mentioned on the forum before, a number of people have reported general weight gain while on herbals such as fenugreek and PM. Read some history for more detail. Your actual growth and timing is hard to predict.There has been a wide range of results reported by people here.

But if I do find it in a store, it would probably be the same? It's not like the Ainetrol one is good, and every other brand is 80% placebo right?

I can't possibly answer a question about a hypothetical source or brands I have no experience with. As you go through life, your trust in the people who profit from your purchases to do the right thing will decrease. This is not a side effect of breast development...

[chrishoney]

waeg123,

Welcome to the forum. My first suggestion is spend a lot of time going through threads on the new forum as well as the archives of the forum in it's former incarnation. I would recommend even reading up on the other subsections such as herbal and glandular NBE even if you don't think you want to go that route, and look at threads that don't at first glance seem to apply to your situation. There is a wealth of information here, but you have to dig a bit to find it.

My second recommendation is proceed with caution. This stuff works (for many/most) for real, despite what you might read about wasting your money on herbs on more traditionally oriented transgender sites.

The following is based SOLELY on my experience and may not be generalizable to anyone else. On the other hand it may help you in your journey so here it is.

I have what I consider relatively strong gender dysphoria, or Gender Identity Dysphoria (GID). What you describe in yourself sounds much like my GID. I have seen a number of therapists over the years, once specifically for my GID. My experience with therapy is that MOST haven't got a clue about what you are feeling and experiencing and aren't worth the air they breathe let alone the hundreds or thousands of dollars I spent finding that out. To date, their educational background/degree hasn't seemed to mean diddly as to how much help I have received. On the other hand the amount of help you receive is directly related to how honest you are willing to be with/about yourself and what you are feeling and how you communicate with your therapist. That's just my experience, so far. I do plan on searching out a therapist after the new year as I need some advice on how to proceed in my life. However, I am going into it with a very different set of expectations than any time before, so I may have more success.

The weaker herbs (FG, black cohosh, soy) did not seem to have an effect on either my breasts or my GID, but others have reported different experiences and some breast growth. The only two things that seemed to help me have been pueraria mirifica (PM) and estradiol. I would caution you not to expect "relatively fast growth" as NBE is a long term process--think in terms of years rather than weeks or even months. It can take 3 or 4 months just to get signs of real breast growth.

As for that growth, there are numerous posts/threads describing the typical sequence of events in development of your breasts. The long and short of it is that fat redistribution to the breast is relatively reversible, at least up to a point. If you have not had significant glandular development you may indeed be able to have a pretty normal looking male chest after some breast growth once you stop NBE activities. I encourage you to explore the better gynecomastia sites (gynecomastia.org is a good one) to read about what it takes to get rid of breasts if you decide later you don't need/want them.

Once you have significant glandular development (what starts out as breast buds and eventually develops into mature breast tissue/mammary glands), you can only reduce that by surgery. Gynecomastia surgical reduction WILL leave you with visible scars and depending on the skill of the surgeon more or less success in achieving that chiseled male-looking chest. There are no guarantees with surgery either and undesirable effects and regrowth is a real possibility. Again, I highly recommend you read about that BEFORE you embark on this journey.

If I measure with a tape measure, I am somewhere around a small to full a-cup at this point (in some brands and styles of bras I fill a b-cup, but not in most brands/styles), and have been for about 4 or so months, maybe longer. However, development is continuing in my breasts, and they actually have more prominence now than several months ago. I can feel further development of glandular tissue despite no increase in tape measurements. They are no longer quite as compressible/hideable as when there was relatively more fat and less glandular tissue.

As for breast shape, I suspect that wearing bras may help shape the breast. The down side is that almost all bras are made to accentuate the breasts and show them off. If you want to present as male, that becomes an issue, even with a-cup breasts. Also realize that there are as many different shaped breasts in GG's as you can imagine, so too in males that enlarge their breasts. Check out dargona's pic's for someone much closer to your age than folks like sfem, wishful or myself.

As far as maintaining reproductive capacity, that is anyone's guess. No one knows for sure how feminization with herbs affects male reproductive capacity. We do know that sterility is the eventual result when using estradiol. Sterility is reported also with glandular NBE using bovine ovary extract. Will the same happen with PM? I have not read anywhere that this is so, but it seems logical that if an herb is effective enough to counteract (possibly even decrease production of) testosterone, it can eventually result in sterility. Animal studies with PM and real world observation of the effects of xenoestrogens on various marine animals suggests male reproductive capacity is adversely affected. My opinion: if you think fathering children is very important to you in the future, you have several options: put off herbal, hormonal or glandular NBE until after having kids, bank your sperm, don't do it at all. You might find other options, so by all means keep us informed.

If you decide this is something you have to do for yourself, I hope/believe there are women out there for whom this will not be an impediment to entering into a relationship. In my opinion, I think this will change how people see you and will have an effect/impact on potential life partners. In all situations, whether you start on this journey or not, BE HONEST with your partner and tell them what is in your heart. I'm not suggesting this is the first thing you talk about, but if a relationship gets serious, talk about it sooner rather than later.

Above all, enjoy the journey and always keep in mind, what works for one, may not work for another. In other words, your mileage may vary!

Cheers and good luck.

[waeg123]

I dunno. I suppose it would be specific to the individual, but I am thinking you are quite concerned about your appearance. So you should probably assume you will be unhappy with the results if you end up in the state where you have female breast tissue and little to no fat.

I don't know what you mean that I'm "concerned" with my appearance would be. I already have what look like small moobs (naturally; haven't started any NBE) and I'm kinda reserved with my clothing. Is that what you mean? Although I am becoming more and more confident.

As has been mentioned on the forum before, a number of people have reported general weight gain while on herbals such as fenugreek and PM. Read some history for more detail. Your actual growth and timing is hard to predict.There has been a wide range of results reported by people here.

Ok thank you. I just wanted to know if you meant people normally gained or lost weight.

waeg123,

Welcome to the forum. My first suggestion is spend a lot of time going through threads on the new forum as well as the archives of the forum in it's former incarnation. I would recommend even reading up on the other subsections such as herbal and glandular NBE even if you don't think you want to go that route, and look at threads that don't at first glance seem to apply to your situation. There is a wealth of information here, but you have to dig a bit to find it.

Thank you. Will do!

My second recommendation is proceed with caution. This stuff works (for many/most) for real, despite what you might read about wasting your money on herbs on more traditionally oriented transgender sites.

Yeah, I've seen some skepticism in places. Though the forums here have proved it to me!

I have what I consider relatively strong gender dysphoria, or Gender Identity Dysphoria (GID). What you describe in yourself sounds much like my GID. I have seen a number of therapists over the years, once specifically for my GID. My experience with therapy is that MOST haven't got a clue about what you are feeling and experiencing and aren't worth the air they breathe let alone the hundreds or thousands of dollars I spent finding that out. To date, their educational background/degree hasn't seemed to mean diddly as to how much help I have received. On the other hand the amount of help you receive is directly related to how honest you are willing to be with/about yourself and what you are feeling and how you communicate with your therapist.

Ok, well I don't really know what GID is. If it's just the vague catch-all term for the cross-gender feelings that some people have, then I guess, yes, I have that. Though with specific terms, I seem to be battling between crossdresser, androgynous, bigender, and two-spirit. I don't think I'm transsexual or transgender (though I don't really know how they are different. I want to keep my penis, is what I'm trying to say).

And with your experience with therapists, would you suggest I find a gender-specific one, find a psychologist/psychiatrist, or just be honest with a regular therapist?

The only two things that seemed to help me have been pueraria mirifica (PM) and estradiol. I would caution you not to expect "relatively fast growth" as NBE is a long term process--think in terms of years rather than weeks or even months. It can take 3 or 4 months just to get signs of real breast growth.

Estradiol sounds like a hormone. So is that part of HRT and/or something I'd need to get prescribed by someone? In retrospect, "relatively fast growth" was a bad choice of words. I just saw people who said they want everything to be slow, and I just wanted to say that I'm fine if goes faster.

As for breast shape, I suspect that wearing bras may help shape the breast. The down side is that almost all bras are made to accentuate the breasts and show them off. If you want to present as male, that becomes an issue, even with a-cup breasts. Also realize that there are as many different shaped breasts in GG's as you can imagine, so too in males that enlarge their breasts. Check out dargona's pic's for someone much closer to your age than folks like sfem, wishful or myself.

I might be able to live with wearing a bra then. Also, it's funny you should mention dargona. Out of all the pictures of growth I have seen here, dargona's is the closest to the growth that I want to mimic. That sort of growth would be great.

If you decide this is something you have to do for yourself, I hope/believe there are women out there for whom this will not be an impediment to entering into a relationship. In my opinion, I think this will change how people see you and will have an effect/impact on potential life partners. In all situations, whether you start on this journey or not, BE HONEST with your partner and tell them what is in your heart. I'm not suggesting this is the first thing you talk about, but if a relationship gets serious, talk about it sooner rather than later.

Thank you for all of your advice! And it might be a good thing, maybe. I wouldn't want to marry that person, and then find out they are not open to the type of person that I am.

[ZOE]

Slow down Waeg! So many contradictions. Too many questions about your future. Stated that you are 18 but have had a desire for feminine breasts for decades?

Keep an open mind and benefit from the experience of the senior members of this forum.

18 years old? You really need to have frank and open discussions with a professional. At the very least, take your time and learn before taking action. So young and so much to learn about yourself.

Please, take good care of yourself today and tomorrow.

I won't pontificate further, but will respond to any concerns you may have.

Best wishes,

Zoe

[waeg123]

Slow down Waeg! So many contradictions. Too many questions about your future. Stated that you are 18 but have had a desire for feminine breasts for decades?

Keep an open mind and benefit from the experience of the senior members of this forum.

18 years old? You really need to have frank and open discussions with a professional. At the very least, take your time and learn before taking action. So young and so much to learn about yourself.

Well by that I meant more than one decade. 1.1 is still more than 1 But what are the other contradictions? I can clarify on those. And I plan on talking to a professional, but I'm going to move somewhere else to live, but I don't know where, so I can't look for a professional now. Also, I don't know what kind of professional. But thank you for replying