[Moobdood]

Are there any all natural testosterone blockers or do I need to take Spiro? And what is the recommended dosage for spiro?

[AnnieBL]

I would stay away from spiro unless you want to shut down your male function completely (and possibly permanently if you take enough of it for long enough). I have just got off it (prescribed for hypertension), and even at 50mg per day it shut me down completely and I have lost a lot of my body hair, although it did nothing much for my hypertension. 100mg/day at least is the normal dose for chemical castration. All you really need to do though is to block the conversion of free testosterone to DHT. PM itself contains beta-sitosterol in a quantity which may be able to do this, but you can back it up with SP (Saw Palmetto), which is widely used for the purpose and unlike spiro doesn't require a prescription.

Hope this helps.

[Moobdood]

I would stay away from spiro unless you want to shut down your male function completely (and possibly permanently if you take enough of it for long enough). I have just got off it (prescribed for hypertension), and even at 50mg per day it shut me down completely and I have lost a lot of my body hair, although it did nothing much for my hypertension. 100mg/day at least is the normal dose for chemical castration. All you really need to do though is to block the conversion of free testosterone to DHT. PM itself contains beta-sitosterol in a quantity which may be able to do this, but you can back it up with SP (Saw Palmetto), which is widely used for the purpose and unlike spiro doesn't require a prescription.

Hope this helps.

thanks i dont want to castrate myself chemically lol i'll take the SP..what dosage of that should i be taking?

[AnnieBL]

SP is sold in various forms,but capsules or softgels holding about 180mg of SP extract (85-95% fatty acids) are pretty generally available. One capsule morning and evening should be enough. If using pills or capsules of unextracted berries, you probably need 1000mg morning and evening. The prescription drugs Proscar or Avodart can also be used but are much more expensive and have more side effects.

[PattiJT]

FWIW, as with many other products, there generic forms available, both for Avodart and Proscar. Why even consider Avodart and Proscar when the cost is well over $3.50 per pill? When you consider the generic for Proscar is around $.78, and since it comes in a 5mg tab and 5mg is overkill, so I commonly split them into 3 pieces, resulting in a cost of less than 30 cents per day. Side effects? Though some would say freeing your body of DHT production might be one, but only in the sense that we block DHT primarily to allow Estrogen to do it's job. As blocking DHT to prevent hair loss is what it was invented to do, we are only changing the ultimate goal, not the original purpose. Perhaps I've warped that up a bit. It will, slowly, reestablish hair growth. I must qualify that, though. The hair growth may be confined largely to the head area only, IF, and I say again, IF you indeed add an estrogen at the same time. Taken by itself, (out of my experience envelope) it may well add more in other places. However, as that effect has never been mentioned in any research I've done, I doubt that it will. Judging from the Photos that Moobdood has posted, I don't know if an increase in body hair is something being looked for. Granted, it is not an herbal, but I will vouch for the effectiveness of generic Proscar. It's a personal choice, and I'm not hawking it, just providing a little info. Myself, I was very pleased that it helped decrease body hair. I would be interested, perhaps in another thread, as to whether Bryony is still following an epilation program. I'd like to compare results. I did break down and yank on the chest area. While a bit painful, it was not nearly as bad as when I first tried it back before I undertook any bod mod efforts. Not only that, but after this try, 80% stayed away. 2 months now. I know hair is cyclical, but I feel it's quite possible to eliminate it now. And a hell of a lot cheaper than laser or electrolysis. I would never try to justify that expense to my wife, but the $35 epilator was no problem.
Perhaps my next thread topic should be looking for any explanation as to why I so easily get carried away replying to other threads!!
Take care all, and good luck!! Patti

[bryony]

...Granted, it is not an herbal, but I will vouch for the effectiveness of generic Proscar. It's a personal choice, and I'm not hawking it, just providing a little info. Myself, I was very pleased that it helped decrease body hair. I would be interested, perhaps in another thread, as to whether Bryony is still following an epilation program. ...

Hi Patti,

I'm still using it on my chest, mainly because they have become a real valid alternative "release" for me - they don't require the unpleasant mental fantasies required for the alternative - and it just doesn't work as well with bristles!

It's really annoying though, how many break off on the areas below my rib cage. I seem to have really strong roots there.

I'd be worried about Proscar though... I don't know if Moobdood would want erectile dysfunction? I get the impression that you are quite happy about it, or have I got that wrong? Apologies if I have!

B.

[PattiJT]

No apologies necessary, Bryony. At around the time we decided to embark on my body enhancement episode, my wife's body decided it was time to enter menopause. For her, and I suspect others as well, this entailed, among other things, a vastly decreased sex drive. Since I was concurrently entering a downhill slide in that respect myself, due to the use of generic Proscar, (actually called Fincar), we have attained a level of compatibility on the issue of sex that has actually been an exceptional and ongoing event. Is that ideal? For us, and this is not some bull---t bit of rhetoric, we have realized another level of love and commitment to each other that many couples may never, or only much later, achieve. I'd like to say it was by design, but cannot. When you remove what for some couples is an 800# gorilla in a relationship, you come to see that there are many more important aspects of a relationship. True love, conversation, understanding each other more. These are much more possible if part of ones' mind is not incessantly occupied with "wonder if we'll be having a little hoochy-kootchy tonight".
Would I recommend it to others? Probably not, as everyone is different, and all relationships are complex. Many of us here are at different stages of our lives, as well, with many more things to discover about ourselves. It can take some time to arrive at just how commited we are to a partner, versus our commitment to ourselves. Like it or not, things such as this are as important, or more so, than what items we are trying to decide to introduce into our bodies to enhance them. We need to make certain enhancments and adjustments to our minds, as well.
To all, enjoy life!! Patti

[bryony]

Hi Patti,
thanks for being so forthcoming! I have to admit that I find a reduced
libido easier to cope with - but I still want to keep the option!

So I'll put up with the epilator... ED was one of the reasons I got
started on PM, ironically!

I'm guessing moobdood may want to think twice about proscar...

B.

[Moobdood]

hrm..i dunno if im gonna take it..i dont like the loss in libido..tho at times it is a relief lol..so what can i take to block dht that wont decrease my libido?

[bryony]

hrm..i dunno if im gonna take it..i dont like the loss in libido..tho at times it is a relief lol..so what can i take to block dht that wont decrease my libido?

Short answer is nothing, but the long answer is more interesting.

Standard T levels mean that men are pretty much always controlled by their libido. I find that using PM means my libido is under my control. I like it that way, mainly because I'm not happy with what my libido makes me want to do. However, I'm still perfectly capable of having a sexual relationship.

B.