[Jenny13]

Hi there I'm a long time lurker and just registered. I started taking PM 6x500mg a day in may 2012 along with FG 5x610mg a day, and I have a week off every 2 months. I have no idea if the break helps I just saw that some of you have a break and it my help. I will post some pics once I get a camera sorted.

My measurements when I started in may were Hips 35, waist 32, under bust 35, bust 37 and over bust 35.
Today they are Hips 37, waist 32, under bust 35, bust 41 and over bust 36.
They are defiantly noticeable now even with a jumper on and for the last 2 months they are sore. The boob fairy has certainly made a call to me
Along with the growth my skin is a lot smoother and my body hair seems to be growing back finer and takes longer than it did when I first started. I use an epilator which in the last few months is less painful due to the hair being finer I think.

Even though they stick out nicely the fullness does not seem to be there has any one got any ideas how to help this?

[bryony]

Even though they stick out nicely the fullness does not seem to be there has any one got any ideas how to help this?

Hi Jenny,

Patience. Think how long it takes a real girl to develop. 3 years?

The best you can do is combat stalling. Rather than the same dose every day, you can vary it to a weekly average of what you are taking now. I've found that a low dose on 4 days a week and a high dose for the remaining 3 definitely has an effect - on me - though it may be different for others.

I average about 3g/day by taking 1g/day Fri-Mon and 5g or 6g/day Tue-Thu.

Try it and see how you get on, but if you do, be sure to not take any after 8pm or so. I find that it seems to accumulate in my kidneys overnight, causing aching, sometimes severe, in my lower back the next day. By restricting intake to 8pm or earlier, this problem has disappeared.

Others may well disagree with this approach, but it definitely works with me.

Caveat: I only take PM, nothing else.

Good luck,

B.

[Pansy-Mae]

Even though they stick out nicely the fullness does not seem to be there has any one got any ideas how to help this?

Hi Jenny and welcome

Bryony is quite right, its time that will bring fullness.
Take a look at an illustration of Tanner Stages and you'll see that the triangular shape is standard for the early stages.

Progesterone cream may help or, if you prefer, Microgest. Both will probably assist with filling out eventually but it will take a couple years or so - which will seem like 20!

[Misty0732]

Hi there I'm a long time lurker and just registered. I started taking PM 6x500mg a day in may 2012 along with FG 5x610mg a day, and I have a week off every 2 months.

Hi Jenny,

You may want to stop taking the FG. Your body has a limited number of estrogen receptors, and the FG will compete with PM for them. FG is a much weaker phytoestrogen than PM and taking them together will weaken PM's effect.

Good luck!

Misty

[Lenneth]

Hi there I'm a long time lurker and just registered. I started taking PM 6x500mg a day in may 2012 along with FG 5x610mg a day, and I have a week off every 2 months.

Hi Jenny,

You may want to stop taking the FG. Your body has a limited number of estrogen receptors, and the FG will compete with PM for them. FG is a much weaker phytoestrogen than PM and taking them together will weaken PM's effect.

Good luck!

Misty

FG is not a Phytoestrogen, it does however stimulate production of Prolactin.

[Misty0732]

FG is not a Phytoestrogen, it does however stimulate production of Prolactin.

Interesting to hear that. Just about everywhere else I've looked says that it is. From the LiveStrong site:

"Fenugreek seeds contain diosgen, which is a plant-based phytoestrogen that can mimic the actions of the hormone estrogen in the body."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/403569...z2I2zejVTF

Also here:

"The high levels of phytoestrogen in fenugreek may protect against certain types of cancers.
Fenugreek may help slow the progression of HIV and other chronic viral illnesses."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/212526...z2I30NVAkQ

Do you have a link that counters these? I have a good supply of FG left that I set aside when I started PM.

Thanks!

Misty

[AbiDrew85]

Interesting to hear that. Just about everywhere else I've looked says that it is. From the LiveStrong site:

"Fenugreek seeds contain diosgen, which is a plant-based phytoestrogen that can mimic the actions of the hormone estrogen in the body."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/403569...z2I2zejVTF

Also here:

"The high levels of phytoestrogen in fenugreek may protect against certain types of cancers.
Fenugreek may help slow the progression of HIV and other chronic viral illnesses."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/212526...z2I30NVAkQ

Do you have a link that counters these? I have a good supply of FG left that I set aside when I started PM.

Thanks!

Misty

Well, there's a single monumentally fundamental flaw in what livestrong says: diosgenin is NOT a phyto ANYTHING. It's actually an adaptogen. VERY different!

It's ALSO a hormonal precursor which many people used to mistakenly believe meant that it would turn into whatever magical hormone they most wanted it to turn into. It doesn't. It takes lab processing to turn diosgenin into hormones. A lab can make estradiol out of diosgenin. In fact most pharma estradiol is synthed from diosgenin. A lab can also make testosterone from diosgenin. In fact........ And progesterone... Get the pattern?

But when taken into the body it's strictly an adaptogen. And it's adaptive function in the body appears to be a "remove negative feedback loops" effect, allowing you to take all your hormone levels past their normal caps.

It's useful for some. IF I wanted to take a diosgenin, though, I'd take wild yam. Better source of diosgenin. And. Doesn't come with smelly side effects.

[TibetanPrincess]

Interesting to hear that. Just about everywhere else I've looked says that it is. From the LiveStrong site:

"Fenugreek seeds contain diosgen, which is a plant-based phytoestrogen that can mimic the actions of the hormone estrogen in the body."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/403569...z2I2zejVTF

Also here:

"The high levels of phytoestrogen in fenugreek may protect against certain types of cancers.
Fenugreek may help slow the progression of HIV and other chronic viral illnesses."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/212526...z2I30NVAkQ

Do you have a link that counters these? I have a good supply of FG left that I set aside when I started PM.

Thanks!

Misty

Well, there's a single monumentally fundamental flaw in what livestrong says: diosgenin is NOT a phyto ANYTHING. It's actually an adaptogen. VERY different!

It's ALSO a hormonal precursor which many people used to mistakenly believe meant that it would turn into whatever magical hormone they most wanted it to turn into. It doesn't. It takes lab processing to turn diosgenin into hormones. A lab can make estradiol out of diosgenin. In fact most pharma estradiol is synthed from diosgenin. A lab can also make testosterone from diosgenin. In fact........ And progesterone... Get the pattern?

But when taken into the body it's strictly an adaptogen. And it's adaptive function in the body appears to be a "remove negative feedback loops" effect, allowing you to take all your hormone levels past their normal caps.

It's useful for some. IF I wanted to take a diosgenin, though, I'd take wild yam. Better source of diosgenin. And. Doesn't come with smelly side effects.

I read both progesterone like hormone and estrogen like hormones can both be made from diosgenin which is probably why there are so many differing results from those who take it. So I am starting to think this adaptogenic response IS real in when taken in the body. It is in UB and I think this is really helping in the results dept.

[AbiDrew85]

I read both progesterone like hormone and estrogen like hormones can both be made from diosgenin which is probably why there are so many differing results from those who take it.

No... Yes, both E and P (and T too!) are all SYNTHESIZED from diosgenin... In the lab. The human body can NOT synthesize ANYTHING out of diosgenin. It's simply not equipped for it.

When taken directly into the human body, diosgenin is strictly an adaptogen. The reason there are so many differing results is BECAUSE it is strictly an adaptogen. And it's effect. It removes negative feedback loops. This can be handy. It's also wildly unpredictable. Of all the things an adaptogen could do, removing negative feedback loops results in what is quite probably the MOST unpredictable outcomes.

Provided you're doing all the right things for this to NOT wind up giving you too much of something you don't need... It's wonderful. But if there's ANYTHING off-kilter... It'll make it even MORE off-kilter.

For Example. The reason I personally fear though wonder about what might happen if I added a diosgenin to my program is because while I am doing all I possibly can to minimize my T... It remains that I am biologically male, so my T is going to be higher than I'd like. If I remove T-related negative feedback loops, it'll become even MORE difficult to block off my T. In theory. It might not work that way in practice... But I still fear experimenting with it even though if it DOESN'T negatively interact with my T it WOULD give a powerful boost to my other elements of my program... That T scares the bejeebus out of me!

[Misty0732]

Well, there's a single monumentally fundamental flaw in what livestrong says: diosgenin is NOT a phyto ANYTHING. It's actually an adaptogen. VERY different!

Well I'm thoroughly confused, and there are certainly a lot of conflicting opinions out there. I certainly don't pretend to be an expert here! Like most people I try and research things as best I can. I guess the best thing to do here is experiment and see if PM works for you best with or without FG.

With that said, let the spirited discussion continue!