[GlassFin]

Hi there

I have been lurking in these forums for over a year now. I have done a bit of research about NBE options and availability of relevant herbs, which turned out to be a bit difficult and expensive here in switzerland. I've finally settled on a rough program that I want to follow and recieved my first order of pueraria mirifica last friday. Since then I've taken 2000mg of PM a day, one capsule roughly every 4 hours. I also ordered saw palmetto and maca capsules which hopefully should arrive this week. I'm not quite sure if I should start immediatley with the maca and what dosage (of both the SP and maca) I should start with. Opinions would be welcome.

Since I was a kid I have been wondering how it would feel to be a woman, or at least to have breasts. I don't really know why but whenever I see a woman with nice breasts - or a nice bum - I always felt just as much aroused as jealous. Now at the age of almost 31, time feels right to find out. Right now I don't plan on transitioning, or presenting full time as woman. But I'm sure that I want those breasts .

So the last few days have been very exciting for me. Starting on that long standing dream of mine. I regularly catch me looking on the clock to see if it's time for the next capsule. I made a spread sheet where I plan to keep track of my measurements and made some photos. Not that easy to make nice looking photos of yourself. I also think I already feel some slight changes. The tissue all arround my nippels feels a lot softer and more "spongy" as I remeber. Not sure how realistic such a change is after only 4 days (could be expectation bias, who knows), but it sure feels good.

I'm happy to have found such a place, with so much information and personal insight. Very helpfull and inspiring.

Greetings
GlassFin

[TibetanPrincess]

To original poster, I am speaking in general here. This may or may not apply to you.

I read these type of comments ALOT. Wanting or desiring what a woman has but no, to transitioning into, presenting as one or what have you.

I don't mean to judge but if you are hetero, wtf???? I don't get this. at all. aroused and jealous???

Are you confused about your true identity and in denial perhaps? Do you just have the fantasy of being both male and female? There are just too many men (espicially ones who identify as hetero) wanting to grow these fucking things!

I get the men who truly identify themselves as female or very feminine-like, inter-sexed. But for men who like women and want to keep their parts,
I find it quite repulsive. I find both men and women attractive (call me pan or bi)but this behavior, I truly do not understand. Its almost as if this is a perversion taken to the next level. i believe the saying: if men had their own vagina and breasts to grope and fuck, they would!!! Is this just me??


Now I understand, why Wahaika left. I totally get it.

[mochaccino]

NO, no, no. Tibetan, do not make the mistake of comparing yourself to Wahaika. You don't understand him at all, but I can't blame you for that. He dislikes anyone who does not confine themselves to extremely stereotypical gender and sexual norms. If he could read what you just said, he would openly distance himself from you because you had the audacity to admit that you're bi. He's somewhat misogynistic, and extremely paternalistic. He sent me a PM warning me not to take advice from female doctors because he believes that they do not know what they're doing. For me, that was really the straw that broke the camel's back, because after that, all his "help" just seemed like condescending pandering.

To both the OP and Tibetan, I personally don't have a problem with autogynephilia. As long as the person engaging in it is not hurting anyone (which is unfortunately not always easy to avoid), I don't see how there could be anything wrong with it. What I take issue with is men, who don't truly see themselves female, feminizing themselves in an irrevirsible way that could be difficult to hide. In that case, I am not at all offended by it, I just worry that they'll be extremely unhappy with it in the future. If their partner is ok with it, and they want to engage in subtle or temporary feminization, then it probably will not hurt them, and it definitely will not hurt anyone else (unless that someone else is dead set on being offended).

Transsexuals who are not autogynephiles are another matter entirely. I have absolutely no problem with sex change for these people, as long as it's done with all due consideration. Wahaika, on the other hand, is utterly against it, and a whole bunch of other things too.

[sfem]

Tibetan, perhaps as you go through life you will encounter a great enough variety of experiences to understand that sexuality, like gender identity, is not a discrete attribute where you must be one of two or at most three choices. It's sometimes called the rainbow forest because there are many, many colors. A complete spectrum if you will. Perhaps you won't. Either way, it will continue to exist regardless of your opinion. I am rather disappointed in your posting tone and language. It certainly isn't a post intended to actually learn anything, or explore anything, or provide anything. Why exactly did you post it?
And as regards Wahaika, I encountered Wahaika's personal flavour of narrow-mindedness very early on in these forums. I figured out in all of 2 posts that he had nothing of value to offer me. Information provided by him would always be twisted to fit his views of how he thought the reader should think and feel. Is that really how you want to be seen, regardless of how much or little you might actually be similar to him?
Open your mind. Proofread your posts for more than spelling and grammar. Or respond and let us know you meant every word if that is truly the case.

[TibetanPrincess]

Tibetan, perhaps as you go through life you will encounter a great enough variety of experiences to understand that sexuality, like gender identity, is not a discrete attribute where you must be one of two or at most three choices. It's sometimes called the rainbow forest because there are many, many colors. A complete spectrum if you will. Perhaps you won't. Either way, it will continue to exist regardless of your opinion. I am rather disappointed in your posting tone and language. It certainly isn't a post intended to actually learn anything, or explore anything, or provide anything. Why exactly did you post it?
And as regards Wahaika, I encountered Wahaika's personal flavour of narrow-mindedness very early on in these forums. I figured out in all of 2 posts that he had nothing of value to offer me. Information provided by him would always be twisted to fit his views of how he thought the reader should think and feel. Is that really how you want to be seen, regardless of how much or little you might actually be similar to him?
Open your mind. Proofread your posts for more than spelling and grammar. Or respond and let us know you meant every word if that is truly the case.

Yeah, I know he doesn't like bis, pans or trans. Wahaika is completely on the other side of the rainbow, but I'm talking on one strain of thought we share. Its still appalling to me that hetero sexual men want breasts on themselves. I am disgusted to see burly hairy, large breasts on a hetero male (I've been seeing alot of this), as most don't look like real women's breasts. It almost becomes against-nature-hideous. Or is me? am It against-nature-hideous for me to be appalled by this? but if they did look like women's breasts, would be any different? Tbh, I don't know, I think I would be less. Its def my opinion and freedom to speech about it just as it is the OP's speech, desire and will to become.

I am not saying burn these folks at the stake or that this shall not continue to exist. I'd have dinner with these idividuals, sit next to them and befriend them any day but I just wouldn't want to see them naked or even in lingerie. I am simply just saying how this makes me feel and is this common as a female like myself? Perhaps i feel threatened of my womanhood? Do I feel like I am competing with men of my nurturing and feminine capabilities? No matter what, I couldn't be attractive to an itch like this. Years back, none of this was on the forum. Is there something in the water that's causing brain rewiring, or has this just been not out in the open due to folk's opinions like mine, perhaps? Now more are talking about it?
I am simply trying to find out why more and more hetero males have this desire.

I respect the fact there will be those who are offended by my posting. Its to each there own opinion. Also, i went through this weird gender identity as a teen. i didn't like males or females. I realized it was because my body wasn't creating hormones. So I feel there is some sort of brain and endocrine connection when it comes to gender identity. I am not picking on these folks. I am picking the brains of known hetero males with this sort of sexual fetish. To me it seems like some kind of perversity taken to some higher level. I am not religious btw, so it has nothing to do with it in case anyone is wondering.
So I wanna know opinions and why this is and any info from hetero males who want to grow breasts and make love to women. Yes, i am only talking about this specific stereotype. How common is this?

[aleah]

Most transgender people are are heterosexual pre-transition, and remain so.

Just like the minority of cispeople in the world are homosexual, why would you think the majority of transgender (any trans person, there is very rarely a normative trans narrative anyway) people have to be homosexual pre-transition?

I know some people have no interest in complete transition and just want breasts, but most of these people still fall somewhere in the middle of the transgender spectrum and growing parts is in part transitioning your body. The desire for feminity is stronger than the desire for sex in a lot of cases I've noticed, especially as they get older.

I personally don't understand the desire to grow breasts and remain male, I'm a transsexual and my time with NBE was to reach that goal even though at first I didn't know how far I wanted to go. Some might be like that, just exploring their gender identity and feel this is a safe way to start.

I don't think there is ever a one size fits all analysis/diagnosis.

[TibetanPrincess]

Most transgender people are are heterosexual pre-transition, and remain so.

Just like the minority of cispeople in the world are homosexual, why would you think the majority of transgender (any trans person, there is very rarely a normative trans narrative anyway) people have to be homosexual pre-transition?

I know some people have no interest in complete transition and just want breasts, but most of these people still fall somewhere in the middle of the transgender spectrum and growing parts is in part transitioning your body. The desire for feminity is stronger than the desire for sex in a lot of cases I've noticed, especially as they get older.

I personally don't understand the desire to grow breasts and remain male, I'm a transsexual and my time with NBE was to reach that goal even though at first I didn't know how far I wanted to go. Some might be like that, just exploring their gender identity and feel this is a safe way to start.

I don't think there is ever a one size fits all analysis/diagnosis.

Aleah, thanks. Are you insinuating many of these who claim hetero maybe infact exploring their true gender identity and may not even realize it? If so, I can understand this then.
Otherwise, I am talking about a specific stereo type, the hetero-males that know they are hetero and are often manly with masculine habits, features and desire to grow large, hairy breasts.

[Wishful]

I can see some doctoral candidate student sitting there studying this forum trying to figure out what is going on for their thesis. I really wish that poor student luck. He/she is going to need it.

[Pansy-Mae]

I could write a book in reply to this thread, and its difficult to know what to actually say and what to leave out!

As sfem said, there is a huge spectrum of needs, desires and wishes for biological males in this overall situation. None of us is exactly the same as any other individual and although I feel myself to be similar to a few others in here, many more are almost as far from me as Tibetan obviously feels them to be from her. So to Tibetan I would say that it really is 'each to their own'.

There are some comments on another thread where folks have said that they look at a woman and don't lust AFTER her, they lust TO BE her. I know that feeling, I've had it all my life, it started when I was about 12 and that was over 50 years ago. I am not TS, I do not believe that I am woman trapped in a male body, I have no intention of transitioning because I am perfectly aware that I am male and no operation can ever change that.
Yes, I had a hairy chest, and like Tibetan I feel somewhat repulsed by the thought of hairy breasts. I was fortunate that when it became obvious that PM was working, I could afford to get laser treatment ( It wasn't 100% successful, but I can deal with whats left), but not everyone is fortunate enough to have the finances. Does that mean they should not explore their dreams? I don't think so!!

I'm unfortunate enough to have MPB and from that point of view alone, does that mean I shouldn't grow breasts? ( I venture to believe that the rest of me looks pretty reasonable in female attire).

Now that I wear a 36B, going on 36C, bra I am perhaps reasonably qualified to comment on how it feels from a male point of view, to have breasts.
So, how it does it feel? Well, to me it just feels "right"... natural, normal. I look down and see them on my chest, they aren't exciting in any sense, they are just a part of me, like a finger or an ear. I touch them and they feel like touching my wife's breasts.

The only downside is the need to keep covered up on holiday at the beach, but to me that is a small price to pay.

[aleah]

Aleah, thanks. Are you insinuating many of these who claim hetero maybe infact exploring their true gender identity and may not even realize it? If so, I can understand this then.
Otherwise, I am talking about a specific stereo type, the hetero-males that know they are hetero and are often manly with masculine habits, features and desire to grow large, hairy breasts.

I think the point I was making was that sexuality and gender identity are not really related. I know several post-op transsexual women who are exclusively lesbian, both doms and subs, no matter how hard they tried to be interested in men.

If you are talking however about people that idenitify as male and have no desire to ever been seen as female in any sexual or social perspective. I would argue they are still transgender, part of them still wants to feminize without making the full transition regardless of their sexual orientation.. why? No one really knows exactly. Genderfluidity/genderqueer is an unusual concept for us who fit neatly into the gender binary but the gender binary doesn't work for everyone's identity.. It might seem in practical to us who do fit in the binary but that helps them affirm who they are and more power to them. I think reinforcing the gender binary is the most damaging thing for the trans community in general.

But there is a lot we still don't really know about transsexuality, some people with early onset gender variance have genderqueer identities and some people with late onset gender variance have very binary gender identities. It's a pretty mixed bag and to be honest we don't know why.

I know both cases, someone who has distinct gender variant memories from age of 7 yet identifies partly as male and still wants to feminize. Then someone who only realised she was transsexual at 35 but she is now post-op after 2 and a half years and happy in her true gender identity. Both lesbians by the way

Most people, regardless of how early their memories or feelings started or how strong or consistent their gender dysphoria was, still have to explore their gender identity through expression.. sexual (hetero and homo, often it's different in both cases), social, emotional and physical and for me and a lot of others NBE is a great safe and discrete way.

It's a pretty big subject, books can be written on non-normative trans narratives. There is some evidence now that white matter in the brain that may be responsible for gender identity is actually incongreuent either partly or completely and that it takes 20 to 30 years to mature in most people. Which is probably why a lot of trans people really start thinking seriously about this in their 20s and possibly explain late onset transsexuality.. however it still doesn't make perfect sense, several MTFs who only had partly female white matter still identified as female completely and were post-op transsexuals. It's such a complex matter and is probably a combination of many factors, nature and nurture.

My trans narrative is not normative either.. I had a distressed puberty, severe depression and anxiety throughout my teenage years which lingered on into adult years. I didn't know why, confusing desires to cross dress and play out hetero-female sexual fantasies which I constantly dismissed. But I didn't have gender dysphoria as far as I knew, I just wanted to be a female but I knew I wasn't, I thought I was OK with being male for a while but I've realised I'm not, I am much happier and more myself in my true gender identity. I don't think this "coming out" to oneself even in very textbook cases happens quickly or easily, it might be one of the reasons due to whatever psychological circumstances that some people simply choose not to transition and I've heard of cases that have textbook gender variance but never feel like they should transition completely since they can't accept their true identity.

Sorry, big post, big subject