I am in the middle of an experiment with some results that I would like to see if anyone can explain. I know some of the more technically-minded will probably be able to furnish an explanation.

Recently, after a break, I've been back on PM. Went right back in at 3 grams/day. Been back on for nearly 5 weeks, approx., (I don't write down dates). At around 3 weeks, I noticed I had recovered most of what was lost during the break, but it's how it happened that's curious.

Having seen that some, Bryony in particular, have a problem with taking PM at bedtime, I decided to push that issue, and see if there would be a similar effect on me. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained". For the first couple weeks, I took PM as I usually did, 2 in the AM, 2 in the afternoon, and 2 in the evening. Then I altered that a bit, by changing the timing of the last 2 so that I took them just before bedtime. And that's when things changed a bit. For the last week, when I arise, my breasts are much firmer, very noticeably so. The firmness seems to lessen slightly by the middle of the day. I can feel the difference. Additionally, When I make my morning trip to the restroom, about 3 hours before I get up for the day, I find a light sheen of "sweat?" on my breast area. Not enough to form droplets, but a wetness just the same. There is also a 3-4 degree difference in skin temperature between my breast area and my stomach area. (Verified somewhat by a digital ear thermometer). While acknowledging that others do indeed have problems with PM late at night, I have found that I am not experiencing any additional pain or soreness. I don't know if these effects I'm seeing should be a cause for concern, or not. Rather than do a wide-ranging internet search, I was hoping someone here may have prior experience with this, or a medical explanation. I'm curious. Patti

strange now that you mention it started on low dosage when i started 1 gram per day to give my body time to adjust to PM then upped it to 2 grams a day , now cycling 4 days 2 grams, 3 days 3 grams. Breast area seems warmer than stomach or throat area when on 3 grams a day also swelling is definatly firmer during the higher dosage days.

Personally I've never found any problem with taking PM just as I go to bed. I can't say I've specifically noticed the other effects but I would say that sometimes I wake up in the wee small hours bathed in sweat ( hot flashes?? ) and the boobs always look bigger when I first get up than later on, which I've always attributed to drooping due to lack of support when I'm at work.

Hi Pansy-Mae,

Having not questioned a cross-section of females, I have elected to take my wifes' explanation of hot flashes as being pretty much a whole-body thing. Maybe you ARE having hot flashes! Me, it's more a case of "hot boobs". It's only more puzzling when I consider we sleep on a warmed waterbed, (same temp for ages), and I sleep in fuzzy PJ bottoms and no top. Therefore, I would expect to sweat on the bottoms probably before the top.

I understand your description of appearances changing during the day. Mine don't "look" larger in the AM, but they feel, by touch, firmer. Yeah, I do have to "check them out" first thing when I get up. I really hope I'm able to "check-up" before I get to having any real sag to them. Got a warning shot this evening. I was following my wife on a little dance exercise she does, and when I got to jumping up and down, had to stop on 3. They seriously hurt! All over. Can't begin to describe the look on her face. Concerned, worried, and wanting to laugh, all at the same time. The time is coming. Take care! Patti

I seem to recall that the temperature of the breast is an important factor for growth. I don't recall where I read that, so feel free to search for genuine knowledge. I do know that when I am growing the good parts, not just the fat, my boobs are definitely warmer to the touch than the surrounding flesh. I also have noticed that taking PM before bed results in sometimes waking up with my boobs feeling more solid for lack of a better term. It doesn't last, and I tend to attribute it to the oomph from the PM having a fairly short lifespan. I wonder if it isn't the biggest difference in our results versus genetic females, the continuous estrogen/other hormones they have compared to our level rise and fall through the day based on the frequency of our ingesting the herbs. Maybe it's also a factor in the effectiveness of the monthly injections.
Either way, it sounds like things are happening again for you Patti. Congrats!

sfem, That seems to be a viable explanation. It falls completely in line with what I'm experiencing, and makes good sense. Maybe I will experiment a bit more, and change the dosage to single capsules taken at closer intervals. see how that affects things over the next few weeks.

If, when you mention injections, you were referring to me, I have to clear that up. A short time ago, when deciding to come off a break, I DID consider going back to a mix of items, one of which was Progynova. However, we decided to stay with PM only, and a small-dose anti-androgen. Since my wife wanted to try PM, it made sense. And, when I looked at my remaining Progynova vials, all 40+ of them were out-of-date. I didn't realize that it had been that long since I was using pharmas. A bit of a waste, but just as well. Additionally, I would have been violating my "keep it simple" approach. So, I am currently only using PM, with no plans whatsoever to go back to any sort of pharmas. I was a little surprised, (pleasantly so) to have regained most of what I lost in less than 3 weeks. And, with growth apparently still going on, I see no reason to consider pharmas, as I will probably come to a stopping point soon enough with only PM. (unless a certain little fairy makes an appearance). Thanks again, and take care. Patti

Just a thought I had while reading this thread, what about wearing padded bra right away in the morning to maintain the heat? Increased heat = increased blood flow = increased growth maybe???? I know elsewhere we have had discussion on applying heat with a heating pad to encourage growth. This would take advantage of the PM induced heat. Just a wild thought for consideration. Any thoughts on the matter?

But, it's a great wild thought. Thank you for bringing it up. I do have a couple t-shirt style bras that are thinly padded, that should serve the purpose well. like a lot of them, they're not really full cups, but should still keep most of the heat in. If I need any more heat retention than that, I guess I could make a bra out of a survival blanket?
Thanks for the tip, Wishful!! Patti
And, I think I'll just go ahead and wear one to bed. Why wait?

I should have been more detailed in what I meant about the injections. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. Over time, I have noticed that when various folks mention hrt, they often describe a monthly injection of whatever they take, instead of daily dosing. I really don't know much about pharma hrt because I haven't looked into it and don't expect I ever will. I was vocalizing my suspicion that perhaps it works better at least partially because it has a more constant and consistent effect than something which has an effect for some short time period, then has to be constantly renewed and results in levels of various things going wonky in the body over short time spans. I know there is a recurring theory that comes up on here which proposes that changing the levels of PM on a multi-day or multi-week cycle can improve results, but that is a different thing from the very short period of variability I'm talking about.

Regarding the bra warming thing, that is for real. I have a thinly lined wireless bra which an a real old favourite of mine. I noticed a long time ago that when I wear it that my boobs and especially my nipples were warmer and stayed that way for a remarkable period of time even after removing it.

I should have been more detailed in what I meant about the injections. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. Over time, I have noticed that when various folks mention hrt, they often describe a monthly injection of whatever they take, instead of daily dosing. I really don't know much about pharma hrt because I haven't looked into it and don't expect I ever will. I was vocalizing my suspicion that perhaps it works better at least partially because it has a more constant and consistent effect than something which has an effect for some short time period, then has to be constantly renewed and results in levels of various things going wonky in the body over short time spans. I know there is a recurring theory that comes up on here which proposes that changing the levels of PM on a multi-day or multi-week cycle can improve results, but that is a different thing from the very short period of variability I'm talking about.

Actually......... Injections work in a rather interesting way. They are their most potent immediately after injection and slowly wane in potency over time. So by getting once or twice monthly shots they are getting sudden shocks followed by a gradual waning. VERY similar to a genetic woman's cycle!

The injections also tend to "release" in the mornings. Just like in a genetic woman's diurnal cycle!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I think the best way to take anti-androgens is constant dose multiple times a day and the best way to take estrogens is daily in the morning around 7am, but changing the dose a mimicry of the monthly female cycle.

Regarding the bra warming thing, that is for real. I have a thinly lined wireless bra which an a real old favourite of mine. I noticed a long time ago that when I wear it that my boobs and especially my nipples were warmer and stayed that way for a remarkable period of time even after removing it.

That's awesome! I EXCLUSIVELY wear and prefer lined and/or padded bras. I'm just waaaaay too sensitive not to!