[ct23]

So I decided to test out Swanson's Raw Ovarian by taking (12) 250mg with (4) Pitutary Gland and (2) L-Tyrosine all per day and only after like 2 weeks I have had some Fat redistribution to my butt, thighs, and hips.. Lost some upper body mass (seems like I still am losing some).. and I woke up in the middle of the night last night with an aching left nipple and it looks like my aereola have expanded and I have gained a few Montgomery glands. It's really kinda scaring me how fast my body is reacting to it. I have a feeling I could grow some serious breasts on this stuff.

[flamesabers]

It's really kinda scaring me how fast my body is reacting to it. I have a feeling I could grow some serious breasts on this stuff.

I think something important to keep in mind is it's your body that puts a cap on how fast and how much you grow. It's good I think you've found a NBE regime that works really well for you. The catch is it takes time for the body to reach the ending goal of NBE. I'm not trying to suggest you shouldn't enjoy your initial progress, but rather to advise against setting too high of expectations for long-term growth.

[ct23]

I'm really not setting my expectations too high.. it's just that my body is reacting so strongly to the BO. I couldn't ever use PM because after 2 weeks I would get horribly headaches, chills, and feel really nauseated which makes me think that for some reason my body just really does not like herbs or I naturally make a little more estrogen and was hitting an estrogen peak too quickly even on minimal doseages; whereas, with the BO my body is creating it's own feminine hormones and I'm actually taking less of a dosage of BO than Transfemme even calls for. Technically, Swanson's pills contain half, or roughly, the amount of BO that Transfemme does but you can't really judge the quality of Transfemme's because of the "proprietary blend" yet I would say it is good quality based off of some results I have witnessed on here and other sites. So, I'm not setting the bar too high nor am I taking a lot more to try and speed the process. I'm using less than a Transfemme dosage yet I'm already seeing effects which is kinda scary because I didn't expect my body to react so quickly but then again it is exciting too!

[palomasback]

i've noticed that biological males have a lot more luck with NBE anyways because they don't have estrogen-regulating systems in place that adapt to what ever you're doing and shut down your progress.. the male to female transexuals I see always have wayyyyyyyy crazier curves than most biological females..

[flamesabers]

i've noticed that biological males have a lot more luck with NBE anyways because they don't have estrogen-regulating systems in place that adapt to what ever you're doing and shut down your progress.. the male to female transexuals I see always have wayyyyyyyy crazier curves than most biological females..

I partially agree. I think part of it has to do with since a number of males start NBE with a flat chest, it's much easier to gauge how much growth NBE has incurred. However, I think a lot males have reported losing some breast size if they stop taking NBE herbs for some time. It can be a uphill fight for some males with overcoming their testosterone levels. Male or female, I think the body has its ways of suppressing or sabotaging NBE.

[ct23]

The thing with BO though is that it increases aromatase in the body, which if working correctly, converts the body's natural testosterone to estrogen. The body can't really fight back against it if enough BO is within the body because as it produces testosterone then the aromatase converts it to estrogen leading to more feminine traits unlike PM. PM already creates an estrogen itself without REPLACING the testosterone.

[palomasback]

The thing with BO though is that it increases aromatase in the body, which if working correctly, converts the body's natural testosterone to estrogen. The body can't really fight back against it if enough BO is within the body because as it produces testosterone then the aromatase converts it to estrogen leading to more feminine traits unlike PM. PM already creates an estrogen itself without REPLACING the testosterone.

Ok, that's totally interesting.. i didn't know that! could you direct me to where you got that info? I'd like to read more on it..

But, even if (with BO) the body converts androgens to estrogens, the body still might just increase its production of whatever breaks estrogen down and eliminates it, or it could cause receptor insensitivity.. right? I mean.. it seems that the whole body is dedicated to maintaining its own sense of balance.. and will make adjustments in order to keep balance as much as possible..

[flamesabers]

The thing with BO though is that it increases aromatase in the body, which if working correctly, converts the body's natural testosterone to estrogen. The body can't really fight back against it if enough BO is within the body because as it produces testosterone then the aromatase converts it to estrogen leading to more feminine traits unlike PM. PM already creates an estrogen itself without REPLACING the testosterone.

Ok, that's totally interesting.. i didn't know that! could you direct me to where you got that info? I'd like to read more on it..

But, even if (with BO) the body converts androgens to estrogens, the body still might just increase its production of whatever breaks estrogen down and eliminates it, or it could cause receptor insensitivity.. right? I mean.. it seems that the whole body is dedicated to maintaining its own sense of balance.. and will make adjustments in order to keep balance as much as possible..

Yeah, developing receptor insensitivity and stalling is certainly a possibility. I think the body tends to be very adaptive. If the body thinks estrogen levels are too high, it'll try to find one way or another to curtail this. Receptor insensitivity or lowering the body's own natural production of estrogen may be ways the body tries to adapt. I wouldn't be surprised if the body has a way of limiting the output of aromatase.

[ct23]

The thing with BO though is that it increases aromatase in the body, which if working correctly, converts the body's natural testosterone to estrogen. The body can't really fight back against it if enough BO is within the body because as it produces testosterone then the aromatase converts it to estrogen leading to more feminine traits unlike PM. PM already creates an estrogen itself without REPLACING the testosterone.

Ok, that's totally interesting.. i didn't know that! could you direct me to where you got that info? I'd like to read more on it..

But, even if (with BO) the body converts androgens to estrogens, the body still might just increase its production of whatever breaks estrogen down and eliminates it, or it could cause receptor insensitivity.. right? I mean.. it seems that the whole body is dedicated to maintaining its own sense of balance.. and will make adjustments in order to keep balance as much as possible..

All you have to do is google Bovine Ovary and it is all over the place. The funny thing about aromatase is that it is natural in both men and woman BUT, excuse me if I offend anyone, fat men produce more aromatase than skinny men therefore men with more fat produce more estrogen and less testosterone than skinnier men generally. The fat actually promotes aromatase but if you're inputting the primary aromatase source, then if your body works with bovine ovary then you should be able to cross the threshold of being a bigger man to getting a womanly figure depending on how much aromatase is in your body converting testosterone to estrogen. But, Bovine ovary does not work with everyone. BO isn't like PM where it directly effects the hormone pool. With PM alone, Estrogen goes up and generally testosterone stays up until you take enough to overtake the body's natural production (Bad idea for some); however, with BO estrogen goes up from converting testosterone which essentially lowers your testosterone count. Like I said though, BO has to work with your body. If it doesn't work for your body, then the aromatase will not be produced and testosterone will not be converted. As for insensitivity, I don't think it's very possible because it isn't a direct hormone affecting your system. It's a chemical promoting the change of hormones. And, I havn't read about anything that can "break-down" aromatase; however, you can take aromatase inhibitors to stop it. The body generally either produces more testosterone or it produces aromatase to convert test to estrogen. In response, to even more aromatase the body would produce more testosterone to fight it but the more aromatase you put in your body, the more test it will convert (if BO works properly for you).

[MonikaT]

The thing with BO though is that it increases aromatase in the body, which if working correctly, converts the body's natural testosterone to estrogen. The body can't really fight back against it if enough BO is within the body because as it produces testosterone then the aromatase converts it to estrogen leading to more feminine traits unlike PM. PM already creates an estrogen itself without REPLACING the testosterone.

Ok, that's totally interesting.. i didn't know that! could you direct me to where you got that info? I'd like to read more on it..

But, even if (with BO) the body converts androgens to estrogens, the body still might just increase its production of whatever breaks estrogen down and eliminates it, or it could cause receptor insensitivity.. right? I mean.. it seems that the whole body is dedicated to maintaining its own sense of balance.. and will make adjustments in order to keep balance as much as possible..

All you have to do is google Bovine Ovary and it is all over the place. The funny thing about aromatase is that it is natural in both men and woman BUT, excuse me if I offend anyone, fat men produce more aromatase than skinny men therefore men with more fat produce more estrogen and less testosterone than skinnier men generally. The fat actually promotes aromatase but if you're inputting the primary aromatase source, then if your body works with bovine ovary then you should be able to cross the threshold of being a bigger man to getting a womanly figure depending on how much aromatase is in your body converting testosterone to estrogen. But, Bovine ovary does not work with everyone. BO isn't like PM where it directly effects the hormone pool. With PM alone, Estrogen goes up and generally testosterone stays up until you take enough to overtake the body's natural production (Bad idea for some); however, with BO estrogen goes up from converting testosterone which essentially lowers your testosterone count. Like I said though, BO has to work with your body. If it doesn't work for your body, then the aromatase will not be produced and testosterone will not be converted. As for insensitivity, I don't think it's very possible because it isn't a direct hormone affecting your system. It's a chemical promoting the change of hormones. And, I havn't read about anything that can "break-down" aromatase; however, you can take aromatase inhibitors to stop it. The body generally either produces more testosterone or it produces aromatase to convert test to estrogen. In response, to even more aromatase the body would produce more testosterone to fight it but the more aromatase you put in your body, the more test it will convert (if BO works properly for you).

The only source I've ever found claiming BO works through aromatization is Transfemme. They claim their product causes permanent changes so only take it if you are a transsexual. They also claim they used to sell a product to reverse the process, but no longer sell it. Most sources just talk about BO being a source of estrogen and progesterone. Transfemme also recommends protein shakes and states that low thyroid function will hamper the results. I'm really not sure what to think of BO. I can't confirm the aromatization claim. I know indole-3-carbinol aka I3C and diindolylmethane aka DIM and another botanical called chrysin can all inhibit aromatization. Other than abdominal obesity, I haven't found much that increases the process.