[flamesabers]

Hello all.

This has been on my mind for some time, but I also think it's very relevant considering one of Julie's recent threads. How do you perceive your own gender identity and how does it drive or refrain you from pursuing certain choices or actions?

In my profile page I describe myself as having an androgynous gender identity. Here's a few snippets from a post on Susan's board that I really relate to:

Androgynes do as they please, wear what they like, and behave in a manner without reverence to sex or gender. Some Androgynes wish their bodies were as androgynous as their gender identity. A few Androgynes take medical steps towards the opposite sex to appear more androgynous looking. Some Androgynes dress in ways that minimize or obscure their physical sex because they would rather be thought of as a person instead of being primarily categorized and treated like a man or a woman.

Here's the link if you want to read the full post:

http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=14219.0

In other words, while I'm not seeking full transition, I am striving for a partial transition to better reflect my gender identity. I see NBE as one way to fulfill such a goal. Even before I was aware of NBE, I favored the idea of taking anti-androgens to help taper down my testosterone levels. I didn't act on this at the time because I was clueless about the available natural remedies.

[PattiJT]

Flame,
Digging in that proverbial can-of-worms again, are you? I expect to see a wide range of answers, but it's time we had a more thought-provoking thread here.
Honestly, I try not to think about GID too much. Besides giving me a headache similar to when I consider the notion of eternity, I can never quite come up with an answer that seems to really completely describe who or what I feel I am. Could that be due to a constantly evolving opinion of myself? I'd like to say you and I are similar, but with a few differences, (of course). No matter the situation, or how I'm presenting myself, both through actions and appearances, my mind is always processing things from both the male and female views. My appearance is often obviously male, but my actions are far from being overtly masculine. That's by design. Doing so would only serve to upset the feminine side of me. Make sense? In short, I have to live with me, and if the overall impression I demonstrate to others doesn't please me, it bothers me.
I could probably afford to perform some physical changes, but nothing drastic. I'm actually quite satisfied with where and who I am, but that doesn't mean I can describe that position to someone else. I will admit, however, to feeling somewhat androgynous like you, in the respect that I would like to be able to be either male or female in appearance at any given time or day. But, I wouldn't want to run around dressed or acting in such fashion that others would be unable to discern who or what I was. I'm not an in-your-face type of person, and don't want to provide fuel for controversy, just be happy. Let's admit, until society changes, we're all going to be expected to be a peg that fits in some designated hole. Or be prepared to deal with the consequences. And since I have more than myself to consider, I don't see my personal gratification as a reason to crap on anyone else's life.
Maybe age has played a part in how I see myself, and how I accept my personal situation. And I have to factor in that I have a much better marital situation than many here. Not having to hide anything from my wife truly makes all this easier to live with.
Let me ask you a question, and think before you answer. If you could have a "sex change", would you? I would have to say no. Just doesn't fit my idea of "me". I don't mind being of "majority femme" mind, while being "majority male" appearing. I do admit, tho, to wanting to be mare feminine in appearance, but largely to "pull it off" more effectively when I want to appear female.
Oddly enough, all this NBE, and being transgendered, has extremely little affect on me sexually. I suspect you feel largely the same. It used to, somewhat, but there's that mental evolution thing again. Now it's more of an image fulfillment issue. As soon as I can mentally nail down the image I have of me, then I'll know more about how to fulfill it. In the meantime, I keep exploring and learning, cause that's what people do. I hope. And I hope I have given you something you can understand? Patti

[myboobs]

For me i have always liked wearing female clothes but due to various social norms never dare tell anyone. Now as a married man with a grown up child one also has responsbility to others . About 13 yrs ago under very stressful situation my eczema went haywire and men's'underwear causing rashes in crotch area moved me to wear ladie's'underwear which i took on enthusiacly. Under diffrent pretentions got FAJAS / corsets / stockings / tights . I would like to have a bit of feminine attributes but not to go other side . I would love to Xdress but cant see that happening due to social stigma / strictures. But here i am free to say / think how i really feel . Dual identity !! I am sure there are many many more people out there who feel same and keep it to themselves. There are other forums where men with similar situation comment / discuss . The society we live in has problem excepting anything that does not. Fit male / female identity.

[sfem]

I think my own views on this change little over time. I have a natural curiosity about things I have not experienced in my life, but little inclination to seek most of them out for assorted reasons. One of those things is the exploration of a female identity. I have never done myself up in makeup beyond trying a bit of nail polish or lipstick a couple of times in my life. I have never completely dressed up as female, just worn specific items, usually under male clothes unless I have been alone. In fact, other than one halloween I recall rather well when I was about 5 or 6 and my mother did me up as a girl (skirt, blouse, makeup, everything), I have never even tried to present as female. I have a remarkably clear memory of that event and still remember how much I enjoyed it. Funny. Hadn't thought of that in a long time. Anyway...
I am generally non-confrontational and don't do things just to rile people up, or cause friction. I don't pick fights, and I don't try to force my views on others. So I rarely find myself having to defend my views other than to myself. And I find myself very easy to get along with. So I have little to no anxiety about my gender identity. Only my wife finds it a bit difficult at times. And I do what I can to make it easier for her without sacrificing my integrity. And that is the core of my answer to your question Flame. I am not conflicted within myself about this, and I don't debate the topic with anyone. About the only time this particular side of my personality affects my decisions is when I shop for clothing that I feel I can get away with wearing, given my general approach to my life. And I suppose it makes me hang about with you lot. Which also improves my life IMHO.

[Elisaustin]

From a mental stand point I feel female all the time and probably always have.
There was no switch to turn on and off.
From a physical stand point this male body was just along for the ride.
PM has opened up a door to bring the two closer together.
The good news is you can feel as feminine as you want and it does not really need to show unless you want to project it.
As far as dressing I am not sure how that fits in but it does.
I can remember sitting at the senior prom with my date and wishing I was wearing that dress and those nylons and heels instead of her.


Being transgender is only a handicap if you make it one.

[girlalex]

a response i posted on crossdressers.com that i should have posted over here got deleted because it was inappropriate for the specific forum that i posted it in. in addition to that they deleted my post because it was TMI. how the heck am i supposed to properly explain myself if i don't provide too much information plus i wasn't even using an inappropriate language. they are so anal about things its ridiculous. and if u mention anything about herbals no one would listen to you.

anyways. because of my gander issues i wasn't ever been able to to stay in a relationship because i felt like i wasn't a proper boyfriend material. i've been on dates but they seemed awkward because i had a hard time keeping the conversation. i had nothing really to say because i was nervous. i guess the root of this problem was because i do find females attractive but their private are is not something that gets me going. i mean i can have a girl as my friend but as soon as i feel like im being hit on, it makes me feel uncomfortable because i don't know how to respond because i don't know how i feel about it and i don't want to hurt anyone if i change my mind about not being with that person anymore. when i feel like a girl sees me as a gentlemen or "her man" it turns me off because they see me in a way i don't like to be seen as.

and that's how my gander issues has effected my love life.

with guys is a different story. there are much much fewer guys that im attracted to than girls. i would go out with a guy on a date but i don't want to be thought of as gay because it would make me feel uncomfortable just like an average straight female wouldn't want to dress like a guy when going out on a date with a guy. yet i don't like the idea of dressing like a girl because i don't wanna look like a dude in a dress which is why i've been doing herbals so that female clothes would look more convincing on me.
has anyone feels the same?
any feed back would be appreciated

[Lotus]

There was time prior to NBE when I was content who I was, now I wish for those times of content,lol

I can't figure where there flippin dail is, like Patti it give me a headache!

L.

[flamesabers]

I like you new avatar Patti.

Flame,
Digging in that proverbial can-of-worms again, are you? I expect to see a wide range of answers, but it's time we had a more thought-provoking thread here.

Yup, I agree. I definitely had a longing for a thread that forces me to really think and rethink what I'm going to say.

Honestly, I try not to think about GID too much. Besides giving me a headache similar to when I consider the notion of eternity, I can never quite come up with an answer that seems to really completely describe who or what I feel I am. Could that be due to a constantly evolving opinion of myself?

Same here. I think part of the problem may be that we simply lack sufficient self-awareness to accurately describe ourselves entirely. However, I think pondering the issue at times can be quite pleasant and enlightening. I'm not out to solve the answer with this thread, but merely try to better understand myself and others.

I'd like to say you and I are similar, but with a few differences, (of course). No matter the situation, or how I'm presenting myself, both through actions and appearances, my mind is always processing things from both the male and female views. My appearance is often obviously male, but my actions are far from being overtly masculine. That's by design. Doing so would only serve to upset the feminine side of me. Make sense? In short, I have to live with me, and if the overall impression I demonstrate to others doesn't please me, it bothers me.

While I may have distinctly feminine and masculine aspects of my personality and behavior, I don't see the two as conflicted or otherwise working against the other. It's not like for every feminine thing I engage in, I have to partake in an equally masculine thing and vice versa. Instead, I see the two as separate units that aren't particularly bothered or threatened by cross-gender behavior and such. I think as a whole this in turn means I act or say whatever I want without a concern I'm being too manly or girly.

Let me ask you a question, and think before you answer. If you could have a "sex change", would you? I would have to say no. Just doesn't fit my idea of "me". I don't mind being of "majority femme" mind, while being "majority male" appearing. I do admit, tho, to wanting to be mare feminine in appearance, but largely to "pull it off" more effectively when I want to appear female.

If you mean SRS, the answer would no. However, if there was a seamless and instant way to achieve transformation, I would seriously consider it. Lenneth posed an identical question a while back and here's my response to it:

If I had no choice in the matter, I know I wouldn't be bothered if I woke up as a GG tomorrow. This might not make sense, but I think my androgynous gender identity is adaptive enough to handle and even enjoy such a dramatic change, but at the same time I concede there may be benefits to being male at least a part of the time.

If you reworded your question to something like "would I want to be reincarnated as a female in a future life," my answer would be a definite yes!

Oddly enough, all this NBE, and being transgendered, has extremely little affect on me sexually. I suspect you feel largely the same. It used to, somewhat, but there's that mental evolution thing again. Now it's more of an image fulfillment issue. As soon as I can mentally nail down the image I have of me, then I'll know more about how to fulfill it. In the meantime, I keep exploring and learning, cause that's what people do. I hope. And I hope I have given you something you can understand? Patti

Pm and spearmint has kicked down my libidio, but my sexuality is still drawn towards women if that's what you mean.

Yes, you have given me something I can understand. Thank you.

[myboobs]

I trully beleive that people like us on this forum , we always had a feminine side maynot be strong or suppresed due to enviroment / social situation . UNTIL you bump into situation and decide to take the fork in the road , letting your femenity to be expressed . Many of us live under cover and hide feminine attributes .
Would it not be liberating if you could wear what you like including female clothings / lingerie without raising ridicule / disgust / finger pointing / derogatory remarks etc .

[MissC]

a response i posted on crossdressers.com [...] they are so anal about things its ridiculous. and if u mention anything about herbals no one would listen to you.

That place has some of the worst group-think I've ever seen on the Internet, and moderators that make former Soviet bloc countries look like protectors of free speech. You're not the first refugee.

On many sites, the "conventional TS mafia" as I call them simply do not allow discussion of anything other than synthetic drugs. They always defend this censorship with statements like "herbals are quackery" or "herbs don't work, period" as if they are busily protecting tender minds from accidentally seeing bad information; doing everyone a favor by quashing inquiry.

Yet here we are on this site, proving otherwise. Flamesabers and others are providing detailed documentation of their experiments, programs are generating replicable results, and I know for sure what's working for me.

Screw the naysayers. Never believe people who keep things from you and tell you it's for your own good. They are the worst kind of apparatchiki.

i've been on dates but they seemed awkward because i had a hard time keeping the conversation.

That's hardly unique or unusual!

i would go out with a guy on a date but i don't want to be thought of as gay because it would make me feel uncomfortable

Okay... so be bi. Pretty much no one is 100% straight or gay anyway. Just decide what you're going after, and feel good about it.