My program is influenced by the fact that prescription heart and BP meds have caused severe and irretrievable atrophy of my testes, and thus any testosterone in my system probably only comes from the adrenals and other possible minor sources within the body. I now have a considerably revised (and more effective) prescription pharmaceutical regime which should have much reduced sexual effects.

As for ‘natural’ herbs and supplements, I am at the moment taking a single dose of PM first thing in the morning. I have not been able to find any useful data as to the effective half life of PM, and the concept may in any case be more or less meaningless for a herb of such complex composition. But if GGs have a diurnal cycle of estrogen levels with a peak in the mornings, the single dose approach should approximate to this, and also should produce an enhanced peak phytoestrogen level, if this is significant. The single dose approach does not seem to cause me any problems, but clearly would for some people. I also use a four week dosage cycle, not so much to mimic a female cycle as to provide an easy to follow timetable as to obtain any benefit to had from dose variation. I take 0.5 level teaspoonfuls of Ainterol R1 powder for four days, 1 level teaspoonful for 3 days, and 1.5 teaspoonfuls for 3 weeks. By my reckoning, 1 (measuring) teaspoonful is 2.5 grams.

For one week out of every four, at the moment the low PM dose week,I apply PC at a rate equivalent to roughly 50mg of progesterone per day. I have also at various periods (but not currently) taken FG and/or SP. While my T levels must be very low (I have not yet succeeded in persuading anyone with the necessary authority to requisition the appropriate tests), the composition of SP is so complex that I cannot exclude the possibility of it being useful. I dislike the alleged ‘maple syrup’ odour associated with taking FG and am intending to experiment with alternatives.

In addition I take, twice daily, both horse chestnut (to help with chronic venous insufficiency), and a composite capsule of CQ10, fish oil and vegetable sterols (including beta-sitosterol), and also a daily vitamin and mineral pill.

I usually massage my breasts, 360 rotations twice daily.

I have recently been prescribed gabapentin for peripheral neuropathy. The initial low starting dose had no perceptible effect, although a recent doubling of the dose may have helped my sleep pattern, and the dose is to be reviewed again at the end of this month. It is of interest in that it appears to be an HGH promoter, which I hope may help with breast growth.

Congrats AP,

It's exciting to see your program!

But if GGs have a diurnal cycle of estrogen levels with a peak in the mornings, the single dose approach should approximate to this, and also should produce an enhanced peak phytoestrogen level, if this is significant.

Excellent point!, I've been taking an overnight dose, you know the whole GH-growth hormone thing while you sleep!

I have recently been prescribed gabapentin for peripheral neuropathy. The initial low starting dose had no perceptible effect, although a recent doubling of the dose may have helped my sleep pattern, and the dose is to be reviewed again at the end of this month. It is of interest in that it appears to be an HGH promoter, which I hope may help with breast growth

I've been on that stuff forever!, Seriously thou, I take a much higher dose, so what does that tell ya!



So, lets get busy!!..........

testosterone in my system probably only comes from the adrenals and other possible minor sources within the body

Have you thought about adding some T back into your plan?

In addition I take, twice daily, both horse chestnut (to help with chronic venous insufficiency.

Is that in a tincture, do you wear compression socks in addition?

Lotus~Aphrodité wrote:

"Have you thought about adding some T back into your plan?"
I need to know first what my levels really are. Some T, probably a typical female level, is obviously a good thing. When I raised it with my NP, she said I should raise it with the urologist with whom I have been trying to get an appointment for more than six months. If I can get a requisition from him the tests themselves will be free.

"Is that in a tincture, do you wear compression socks in addition?"
It is in capsules: the brand "Natures Way" is the most easily available locally and each capsule contains 250mg of horse chestnut extract standardized to 20% eschin, the active principle., but a number of generally similar products are around. I do wear compression socks, 30-40mm Hg graduated compression. These are prescription items in Canada - I don't bother with prescriptions and get mine by mail order from Ames Walker (ameswalker.com) in N. Carolina - very good quality and service and very much cheaper than anything available locally. I'm including these details in case they are of use to anybody. I was concerned that the socks did not apply any compression to the toe area where the largest number of my ulcers were occurring. Although the specialist I was seeing at that time said that didn't matter, it did, and the HC together with the socks has provided an effective solution for the last seven years, and also means that I can put my feet down for a short time without the socks on and without my feet turning purple from pooling blood.

How are your feet?

Wow AP,

I knew you had health problems, but god love ya!, I'm sorry you have so much to deal with!. I have a new found respect for you, not that I didn't before.

Honestly I never heard of HC before, I find it interesting, and if it helps with the neuropathy, well than great!. I love it when we can learn and share even if it's about breasts here right?.

I must have made my leg problems sound over dramatic. I suspect that the chronic venous insufficiency and edema that developed in my legs after the pumping efficiency of my heart deteriorated during 1999 (which resulted in my taking a fairly lucrative buyout and early retirement in 2000), and made them more prone to peripheral neuropathy. I was however still able to indulge my GID-submerging wanderlust. The ulcers developed after I badly split the skin over my shin while climbing off the roof of a train in Bolivia, with the original ulcer which formed on my shin being joined by three others on my toes, all surprisingly painful. The strong pressure socks plus horse chestnut regime have so far prevented any further ulcers and largely banished the edema, since when we have made further trips searching out surviving steam locomotives in Argentina, Burma and Java, so you may understand why I have difficulty in regarding myself as someone in ill health. The insensitivity of my finger tips due to the peripheral neuropathy is a nuisance when it comes to operating today's electronic gadgets or even ordinary typing, but a greater concern than that numbness and other paresthesia is the slight loss of motor control which increases the clumsiness of my legs and my proneness to tripping. I'd better stop since I can't see how to relate any of this to breasts!

I added shatavari root powder to my routine about ten days ago, as a substitute for fenugreek because I don't like the my smell when taking the latter. I have been taking half a teaspoonful a day, but am now increasing this to a full teaspoonful (probably about 2.5 - 3 gm). It's too soon to expect any noticeable effects if there are any, although I had a fleeting suspicion that I got a whiff of fenugreek smell last night. Has anyone else any experience with using SV?

I added shatavari root powder to my routine about ten days ago, as a substitute for fenugreek because I don't like the my smell when taking the latter. I have been taking half a teaspoonful a day, but am now increasing this to a full teaspoonful (probably about 2.5 - 3 gm). It's too soon to expect any noticeable effects if there are any, although I had a fleeting suspicion that I got a whiff of fenugreek smell last night. Has anyone else any experience with using SV?

That's great AP,

Interesting choice,

Shatavari is also considered to be a source of plant driven estrogen, a rejuvenative tonic and also releases corticosteroids to increase prolactin. Can help with the libido-

How's the gabapentin working?

The impression I got from the literature was that SV is more a hormone potentiator than a source of phytoestrogen. It does contain some daidzein IIRC, but then so does PM, again IIRC. One of the big difficulties with many herbals, for example SV, PM and SP, is that they each contain a number of potentially active constituents in several different categories, which makes their action highly dependent on numerous external factors, and makes it difficult to construct clinical trials providing really useful and reliable results. This in turn leads to inconsistent results and mistrust by the medical establishment. For us as individuals we must weigh the available evidence to determine whether something seems likely to work in our own particular case, and move forward (hopefully) by trial and error. As a confirmed packrat, I have a bathroom cabinet full of the errors, which I can't quite bring myself to throw out.

I saw the clinic pharmacist yesterday. I'm not quite certain how he became further involved in my treatment (he has been monitoring my INR for some time) but I am quite impressed by him and glad to have his input. He upped the gabapentin to 300mg for a week, and said then to raise it to 600mg if necessary with a 300mg morning dose (which extra can be changed to evening if it makes me too dopey during the day), and then to raise it to 900mg total the following week if the response is still inadequate. I'm seeing him again on February 20 to review progress. He gave me a prescription for 72 300mg pills, which didn't break the bank at $26 including dispensing fee. I was taking GABA at one stage earlier on, but was never certain that it did anything even in quite large doses. It is supposed to have difficulties in crossing the blood/brain barrier which don't apply to gabapentin, which IIRC generates GABA or an analogue directly in the brain, so hopefully the gabapentin may be supportive to my NBE. Do you think it may possibly have helped with your own fairly spectacular results?

The impression I got from the literature was that SV is more a hormone potentiator than a source of phytoestrogen.

Hi Annabel,

If you don't mind I'd like to read the literature if you still have it. As with anything you'll find conflicting info. It's our responsibility to find all the relative findings (overwhelming) and then make the best choice.

You have all the right conditions for optimal breast growth, at least according to the research I have, age, low T, and BMI. I think we're missing some of the conversion process on the E (aromatase) and think not to over do it with E, just hold on long enough to it as to attach to the receptors.(PABA)......(Info on ER on Bio-Male guide)

Gabapentin can be administered up to 3200 mg. daily, which I've done when the pain is off the charts, just be prepared for nodding off!. Imo gabapentin didn't hurt breast growth in my situation.


All the best