[GoneGirl]

One thing I noticed about this forum is how devoid it is of discussion relating to how our sex lives are affected by our experimentation with phyto-estrogen herbs.

There's frequent mention of the fact that the male libido is knocked out by PM, that the desire to masturbate and view porn disappears, the discovery of nipple orgasms, and new found pleasure in just cuddling. But, what about your sexual relationship(s)? Better? Worse? No change?

I can honestly say that one of the most unexpected, but welcome, side effects of my PM program is an almost complete turnaround in my sex life. As a crossdreamer (i.e., one who fantasizes about being the opposite sex), I never felt comfortable in the male sexual role from an early age. Even though I was sexually attracted to women, I didn't experience the normal male arousal at the idea of penetrating a woman. I could, and I did (I have three children), but there was always performance anxiety in the mix, and I often depended on fantasy to maintain a serviceable erection and achieve orgasm. I preferred my wife to be on top and often imagined that I was the one being penetrated. It caused me a lot of shame and worry afterward, and put our sex life pretty much on my wife's schedule, not mine. She sensed my unease and became more and more sexually inhibited, as well.

Some might conclude that I'm gay, but I'm sure that's not the case. I find the male physique unattractive, even ugly, to the point I don't even like my own body. I will admit that I have fantasized about feminine looking shemales, though. Does that make me gay?

Since coming out to my wife about my bi-gender identity, having her accept it, and starting NBE with PM, the reluctance to initiate intimate contact has vanished on both sides. There is no longer an expectation or compulsion to copulate to orgasm. Satisfaction is not dependent on "completing the sex act" for either of us. Intimate times are much more frequent now, last longer, and each "session" takes on its own character depending on how we feel at the time. Can you imagine how much we both wish we had found this way of expressing our love for each other earlier in our marriage?

I guess it shows how important it is to be honest about oneself in our relationships; to throw out the rule book and the expectations of others when it comes to your gender identity and sexual preferences. To a large extent, I attribute my sexual transformation to the ameliorating effect PM has had on me. I still marvel at it.

Does anyone find my experience familiar? Has PM had a significant affect (good or bad) on your love life?

CK

[Karren]

What sex life? I should have been a nun...

[AnnieBL]

ClaraKay - I can relate to much but not all of what you say.

I have on occasion already tried to relate here how my changes have affected my sex life, while trying to avoid too much TMI.

My relations with my wife have followed a possibly unusual course in that we were very good friends without any sexual relationship for 17 years before we married, including the whole duration of her first marriage from her meeting her first husband to leaving him, even to the extent of my trying to prop up the marriage, while at the same time hoping for it to fail and let her off the hook. The whole situation was too complex and OT to discuss off the cuff in this post, although my gender variance was a factor , but I needed her marriage to be at an end and for her then to be the initiator in any further development in our relationship. And when that eventually happened, our physical relationship turned out to be good enough to submerge for a long time my GV (although as it turned out we'd left it too long to have any children of our own) until excessive stress at work and resulting health problems, and probably declining T levels aggravated by prescription drugs gradually destroyed my conventional male function. More damaging to our sexual relationship was the necessity to concentrate too much on my own performance rather than her pleasure.

When both of us acknowledged that my penis had become irretrievably non-functional, it was an enormous relief (although she still misses it a little) and with the improvement in my mental attitude probably due at least partially to PM, the reduced stress on her, and the various things mentioned in your second paragraph, things are now better than for many years and in some respect for ever, since many of the things we have long done and still can do, and a few new things, don't conflict with the variant part of my gender, and for me are at least more satisfying than the fleeting and rather unsatisfying nature of the male climax ( and subsequent anti climax). So my answer is better if a lot different. Provided that I am not deceiving myself, my wife thinks that things are now a lot better than they have been, at least for most of the present century! Our friendship is as strong as ever after more than fifty years, and our love is I believe deeper than it has ever been but with less stress.

[SarahSchilling]

I never felt comfortable in the male sexual role from an early age. Even though I was sexually attracted to women, I didn't experience the normal male arousal at the idea of penetrating a woman. I could, and I did (I have three children), but there was always performance anxiety in the mix, and I often depended on fantasy to maintain a serviceable erection and achieve orgasm. I preferred my wife to be on top and often imagined that I was the one being penetrated. It caused me a lot of shame and worry afterward, and put our sex life pretty much on my wife's schedule, not mine. She sensed my unease and became more and more sexually inhibited, as well.

Some might conclude that I'm gay, but I'm sure that's not the case. I find the male physique unattractive, even ugly, to the point I don't even like my own body. I will admit that I have fantasized about feminine looking shemales, though. Does that make me gay?

It's amazing how common this "mental penetration gymnastics required to perform" trait is among the members of this site.....or maybe not.

It was actually discussed in some detail in a thread before. Pages 3-6 or so

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=17216&page=3

As for the sex life? LOL, I'm amazed any of us are able to maintain longterm relationships with the very obvious limitations that said gymnastics place on intercourse.

How do the women not sense something's up? My lovers always did really quickly. Oh well, I guess maybe I just suck at hiding it.

[GoneGirl]

What sex life? I should have been a nun...

Oh, Karren, I feel bad for you.

So my answer is better if a lot different. Provided that I am not deceiving myself, my wife thinks that things are now a lot better than they have been, at least for most of the present century! Our friendship is as strong as ever after more than fifty years, and our love is I believe deeper than it has ever been but with less stress.

We have that in common, Annabel, and it's the best unexpected side effect of PM for us. Yes, I'm trying to hold on to some male function, but if I can't, it's not really that important. Erections are still fun, but orgasm/ejaculation is optional now.

I'm amazed any of us are able to maintain longterm relationships with the very obvious limitations that said gymnastics place on intercourse.

How do the women not sense something's up? My lovers always did really quickly. Oh well, I guess maybe I just suck at hiding it.

I was always in denial of my fem self, and tried to do everything a man is expected to do. I did okay except when it came to sex. I could perform as a normal man, but with no real passion, no abandon. Copulatory sex was another form of masturbation for me, heavily dependent on mental imagery and fantasy, and often anxiety ridden. Not every love making attempt was successful, and that left me frustrated, humiliated, and remorseful. I'm sure my wife could sense something was wrong (she was not inexperienced sexually), and had misgivings over my sexual shortcomings. It was our mutual love for each other that kept us together. I don't believe there was any straying, either.

CK

[Karren]

What sex life? I should have been a nun...

Oh, Karren, I feel bad for you.

CK

Even the nuns at the local convent feel bad for me! lol

[SarahSchilling]

I was always in denial of my fem self, and tried to do everything a man is expected to do. I did okay except when it came to sex. I could perform as a normal man, but with no real passion, no abandon. Copulatory sex was another form of masturbation for me, heavily dependent on mental imagery and fantasy, and often anxiety ridden. Not every love making attempt was successful, and that left me frustrated, humiliated, and remorseful. I'm sure my wife could sense something was wrong (she was not inexperienced sexually), and had misgivings over my sexual shortcomings. It was our mutual love for each other that kept us together. I don't believe there was any straying, either.

CK

Things were much the same for me, up until the last 2 sentences. There was straying if it managed to last past "Let's just be friends"

Ah well, I guess I should just be happy I wasn't stuck playing a role that I was so uncomfortable in anyway.

[GoneGirl]

What sex life? I should have been a nun...

Oh, Karren, I feel bad for you.

CK

Even the nuns at the local convent feel bad for me! lol

I'm glad you can laugh about it, Karren. Then go out and play a good game of ice hockey.

CK

[GoneGirl]

Ah well, I guess I should just be happy I wasn't stuck playing a role that I was so uncomfortable in anyway.

That is so true, Sarah. That's me exactly. I couldn't be honest with myself about who I was sexually, otherwise I'd have found a girl who's attracted to a take charge kind of guy in daily life, but submissive in the bedroom. Do such women exist?

I'm reminded of the words from "One of these Nights" by the Eagles:

I've been searching for the daughter of the devil himself,
I've been searching for an angel in white.
I've been waitin' for a woman that's a little of both,
And I can feel her but she's nowhere in sight.

Turns out she was right under my nose.

CK

[AnnieBL]

One oddity I should possibly have mentioned. When my ED began to get really serious, I found that even if I did manage to get in at the door with the help of a little blue pill, this would be followed immediately by an instant complete collapse, which I would guess must have been psychological?