I consider myself extremely fortunate that my wife is okay with my mixed gender identity and the ways it manifests itself (cross dressing, feminization, NBE).
I had no idea she would be this accepting. In fact, when I first came out to her, she was in shock. My first thought was that I should have kept quiet about it. The look of disappointment on her face was crushing.
Two things turned it around. First was allaying her fear that I was gay. I think she thought that meant we would split up eventually. Second, I was prepared to help her understand what gender identity disorder (GID) was all about and how much anxiety and stress it has caused me over the years. I had spent time learning about it myself for weeks before opening up to her. That gave us something to talk about while keeping emotions at bay.
Later, when I started on PM, and we both noted an improvement in my general state of mind, she start to see it as a good thing. She started to work with me on my gender issues. Her only request was that we keep it private, at least for the time being. I had no problem with that.
Over the past 3 months that I've been taking PM, my wife has been intimately involved in my gender evolution. (My choice of 'intimately' was intentional.
) I think that has helped, too.
I started this thread because I know that not everyone has a sympathetic partner sharing his/her journey of gender discovery. What are the issues with partner acceptance? What can be done to turn that around or, at least, improve the situation?
Those that don't have partners should not feel left out on this. You may one day find that special person and need to reconcile your gender variant inclination as the relationship progresses. Please chime in, too.
CK
I had no idea she would be this accepting. In fact, when I first came out to her, she was in shock. My first thought was that I should have kept quiet about it. The look of disappointment on her face was crushing.
Two things turned it around. First was allaying her fear that I was gay. I think she thought that meant we would split up eventually. Second, I was prepared to help her understand what gender identity disorder (GID) was all about and how much anxiety and stress it has caused me over the years. I had spent time learning about it myself for weeks before opening up to her. That gave us something to talk about while keeping emotions at bay.
Later, when I started on PM, and we both noted an improvement in my general state of mind, she start to see it as a good thing. She started to work with me on my gender issues. Her only request was that we keep it private, at least for the time being. I had no problem with that.
Over the past 3 months that I've been taking PM, my wife has been intimately involved in my gender evolution. (My choice of 'intimately' was intentional.
) I think that has helped, too.I started this thread because I know that not everyone has a sympathetic partner sharing his/her journey of gender discovery. What are the issues with partner acceptance? What can be done to turn that around or, at least, improve the situation?
Those that don't have partners should not feel left out on this. You may one day find that special person and need to reconcile your gender variant inclination as the relationship progresses. Please chime in, too.
CK
Hello CK.
If it wasn't for your final statement, I wouldn't have replied as I'm single.
Ideally I'll attract or be attracted to a female who's open-minded about my transgender identity. It's reasonable to say I think that a lady who wants a manly man isn't going to be interested in me for the long-run. I've talked about this a lot in this thread:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=16480
I usually have two reasons why I don't disclose my transgender identity with someone: there is no reason to, or the cons greatly outweigh the pros. There's good reason to share such personal information with a significant other, and if it would rock the boat too much to destroy the relationship beyond repair, I would question how good it was to begin with. In other words, I don't foresee myself as having a meaningful and committed relationship unless she's already on board with all aspects of myself. I think this is a much different situation than those who already got married or whatever before starting up with NBE and whatnot.
If it wasn't for your final statement, I wouldn't have replied as I'm single.
Ideally I'll attract or be attracted to a female who's open-minded about my transgender identity. It's reasonable to say I think that a lady who wants a manly man isn't going to be interested in me for the long-run. I've talked about this a lot in this thread:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=16480
I usually have two reasons why I don't disclose my transgender identity with someone: there is no reason to, or the cons greatly outweigh the pros. There's good reason to share such personal information with a significant other, and if it would rock the boat too much to destroy the relationship beyond repair, I would question how good it was to begin with. In other words, I don't foresee myself as having a meaningful and committed relationship unless she's already on board with all aspects of myself. I think this is a much different situation than those who already got married or whatever before starting up with NBE and whatnot.
This post was last modified: 18-01-2014, 05:35 AM by flamesabers.
Hello CK,
About a year ago I approached my wife about having my beard lasered and she flipped. I also was seeking her approval to occasionally paint my toe nails (more then just clear polish). Both ideas were outright rejected.
And while it is fun being "one of the guys" growing a beard to support the home team during the playoffs it gives me anxiety most of the time. I have a few stray grey hairs in my head and if I wait to much longer I'll be too grey. So I think I will talk to her about the beard thing again in a few weeks. For obvious financial reasons she has to be on board so I think I'll also say I'd start in the Fall. That would give her time to at least get used to the idea and let her know that this isn't going away.
Fulldoses of PM (above 500mg) and boobs will have to wait a little longer.
About a year ago I approached my wife about having my beard lasered and she flipped. I also was seeking her approval to occasionally paint my toe nails (more then just clear polish). Both ideas were outright rejected.
And while it is fun being "one of the guys" growing a beard to support the home team during the playoffs it gives me anxiety most of the time. I have a few stray grey hairs in my head and if I wait to much longer I'll be too grey. So I think I will talk to her about the beard thing again in a few weeks. For obvious financial reasons she has to be on board so I think I'll also say I'd start in the Fall. That would give her time to at least get used to the idea and let her know that this isn't going away.
Fulldoses of PM (above 500mg) and boobs will have to wait a little longer.
I can see how revealing one's transgender desires to a spouse can illicit a strong negative response.
How would you react if your wife announced that all her life she wished to be man. She wants to take androgens, grow body hair, and have top surgery?
I know it would be tough for me to accept. First, I'd wonder how I could be married to a person for so long and not know them better. That would probably be accompanied by a mixture of fear and anger. Anger that she's doing this now, and fear that even if the marriage survives, my life will be turned upside down.
I would probably insist that such notions stop. That might be all it takes to end it. But if she's not willing to give it up, what then?
Somehow, I think the final answer lies in the strength of love between two people. Weak bonds will break; strong ones will be stretched, maybe to the breaking point, but hold in the end.
If it's someone you've recently started dating, I suppose it would be altogether different. There's much less invested in the relationship, so it's easier to break fledgling bonds. That, however, might make it even more difficult to be honest about one's trans nature at the start. It's often very for people like us to find a love mate.
CK
How would you react if your wife announced that all her life she wished to be man. She wants to take androgens, grow body hair, and have top surgery?
I know it would be tough for me to accept. First, I'd wonder how I could be married to a person for so long and not know them better. That would probably be accompanied by a mixture of fear and anger. Anger that she's doing this now, and fear that even if the marriage survives, my life will be turned upside down.
I would probably insist that such notions stop. That might be all it takes to end it. But if she's not willing to give it up, what then?
Somehow, I think the final answer lies in the strength of love between two people. Weak bonds will break; strong ones will be stretched, maybe to the breaking point, but hold in the end.
If it's someone you've recently started dating, I suppose it would be altogether different. There's much less invested in the relationship, so it's easier to break fledgling bonds. That, however, might make it even more difficult to be honest about one's trans nature at the start. It's often very for people like us to find a love mate.
CK
(18-01-2014, 11:51 AM)Jessica Leigh Wrote: Hello CK,
About a year ago I approached my wife about having my beard lasered and she flipped. I also was seeking her approval to occasionally paint my toe nails (more then just clear polish). Both ideas were outright rejected.
I can see how you might want to dip your toe in the water to test your wife's attitude about feminization. It's easier to undo any damage if the reaction is very negative, which it was. On the other hand, your wife may be thinking, "Give him an inch and he'll take a mile. Better to nip it in the bud."
CK
(18-01-2014, 05:34 AM)flamesabers Wrote: Hello CK.
If it wasn't for your final statement, I wouldn't have replied as I'm single.
Ideally I'll attract or be attracted to a female who's open-minded about my transgender identity. It's reasonable to say I think that a lady who wants a manly man isn't going to be interested in me for the long-run. I've talked about this a lot in this thread:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=16480
I usually have two reasons why I don't disclose my transgender identity with someone: there is no reason to, or the cons greatly outweigh the pros. There's good reason to share such personal information with a significant other, and if it would rock the boat too much to destroy the relationship beyond repair, I would question how good it was to begin with. In other words, I don't foresee myself as having a meaningful and committed relationship unless she's already on board with all aspects of myself. I think this is a much different situation than those who already got married or whatever before starting up with NBE and whatnot.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Flame, but my impression is that you normally project your feminine side in daily life, at least, to some extent. So, any woman that is attracted to you would probably suspect (or even anticipate) that you are transgender. That saves you from being in the position down the road of having to fess up, risking an end to a budding relationship. (The word 'budding' seems to fit nicely here
)CK
Perfect timing CK! I’ve been gathering my thoughts and writing my response for this very thread since Tuesday. Things have been changing rapidly in my world over the last couple weeks and after a long, late night conversation my wife and I had on Monday night.
First a little background about my wife. She’s like my Golden Retriever. Very loyal, very loving, very sensitive and despite my bad case of gender dysphoria, she has stayed by my side like only a real, “man’s best friend” would. She does however, have limits …or perhaps just needs time to adjust??? When my GD reached new heights in the spring of 2013, I didn't doubt her love for me but her limit was that everything must remain between her and I and if I ever decided to go through with SRS, she would have no choice but to leave me. She grew up catholic and, right or wrong, she likes things to be black and white, especially with moral issues. SRS and GD to some extent was wrong in her mind, and needed be fixed. Therefore, staying with me after SRS would create an unresolvable moral conflict for her.
A little about me so the rest of this makes sense. 3-4 years ago, out of no-where, I developed this fascination with seeing my wife with another man. I fantasized about it a lot and even talked to her seriously about it, occasionally mentioning it during sex. Of course she was repulsed by the thought on many levels and nothing ever came of it. About a week ago though, something clicked in me when I blurted out (during sex) that I wanted her to be able to enjoy a, “real man” (instead of a girl wannabe like myself). Again, I got the usual response. …But it was perplexing to me and I wondered if there was a connection between me not feeling like a man and wanting to see her with someone else. It certainly wasn't because I didn't love her dearly. It all came into focus later but hold that thought for a moment.
Now on to Monday night. It started out innocent enough. We had been getting along exceptionally well for a couple days and I was feeling loved and safe so, as you’d expect, I opened up shared a few things that were a little embarrassing. She in turn did likewise but what she was talking about didn’t have anything to do with my GD, or so I thought. To keep this from getting too long, I’ll just say that one of her vulnerable confessions was that there is a guy at work who seems to fancy her …and she confessed that she feels drawn to him also. It’s important to know that she didn’t tell me that with even the slightest inkling of excitement or curiosity. Quite the opposite. She finds it all very painful and is completely torn up by it to the point of weeping. Well, I listened not really knowing what to think, feel or say but there was one question that came to mind. It took forever for me to ask but finally I was able to ask her, “how much do you love me?” I wanted to know because we had arrived at a crossroads. Here was the moment of truth when she could choose between “GD me” or clean slate other guy. Did she only love certain things about me but still have that quitting point at SRS? Was SRS still too much for her? Or did she love me unconditionally UP TO and even through SRS if that’s what it takes for me to find peace? Well, I'm happy to say, she said she wants me …even with all my issues. And just to make absolutely certain (because it’s my indicator of the true depth of her love for me) I asked her point blank, what if I need SRS someday. And her answer was, “It wont necessarily be the end of us”. I think she sees the essence of who I am and she loves that person. I think she knows that SRS can change my body but it wont change the person I am. She didn’t give me the green light but did say, with time, she can see herself accepting it. She is open to professional transition counseling for me starting now and perhaps by the end, she might be willing to give it her stamp of approval. The ideal for both of us at the moment is that I would always be her husband and father to our kids but be free to be myself (including body modifications) under clothing and behind closed doors. Please don't misunderstand, I don't have permission from her to transition and I'm not sure I would go through with it even if I did but there is at least the possibility now where before there was none.
And with that, everything came full circle, the lights came on and it all became clear to me. Suddenly I saw the connection between my gender issues and my fantasy. I was subconsciously releasing her. I love her so much I just couldn’t hold her captive in a marriage that isn’t what she signed up for no matter how painful releasing her might be for me. I was allowing her to explore options and move on if she felt compelled but trying to be a bridge for her between what she has now and whatever waits for her at the other end. Monday night left me convinced that she isn’t crossing the bridge and is furthermore, very content to remain in this side come whatever may. Sadly, you don’t have to visit this forum very often to know that GD is or can be very poisonous to a relationship. There’s no way that I could begin to explain how thankful I am or how aware of being blessed I am by the love (true love) I have from and for my wife. It’s truly amazing to saw the least! So to answer your question CK, does my significant other accept me? Yes! Absolutely. And she loves me too. Now I need to go find a tissue…
First a little background about my wife. She’s like my Golden Retriever. Very loyal, very loving, very sensitive and despite my bad case of gender dysphoria, she has stayed by my side like only a real, “man’s best friend” would. She does however, have limits …or perhaps just needs time to adjust??? When my GD reached new heights in the spring of 2013, I didn't doubt her love for me but her limit was that everything must remain between her and I and if I ever decided to go through with SRS, she would have no choice but to leave me. She grew up catholic and, right or wrong, she likes things to be black and white, especially with moral issues. SRS and GD to some extent was wrong in her mind, and needed be fixed. Therefore, staying with me after SRS would create an unresolvable moral conflict for her.
A little about me so the rest of this makes sense. 3-4 years ago, out of no-where, I developed this fascination with seeing my wife with another man. I fantasized about it a lot and even talked to her seriously about it, occasionally mentioning it during sex. Of course she was repulsed by the thought on many levels and nothing ever came of it. About a week ago though, something clicked in me when I blurted out (during sex) that I wanted her to be able to enjoy a, “real man” (instead of a girl wannabe like myself). Again, I got the usual response. …But it was perplexing to me and I wondered if there was a connection between me not feeling like a man and wanting to see her with someone else. It certainly wasn't because I didn't love her dearly. It all came into focus later but hold that thought for a moment.
Now on to Monday night. It started out innocent enough. We had been getting along exceptionally well for a couple days and I was feeling loved and safe so, as you’d expect, I opened up shared a few things that were a little embarrassing. She in turn did likewise but what she was talking about didn’t have anything to do with my GD, or so I thought. To keep this from getting too long, I’ll just say that one of her vulnerable confessions was that there is a guy at work who seems to fancy her …and she confessed that she feels drawn to him also. It’s important to know that she didn’t tell me that with even the slightest inkling of excitement or curiosity. Quite the opposite. She finds it all very painful and is completely torn up by it to the point of weeping. Well, I listened not really knowing what to think, feel or say but there was one question that came to mind. It took forever for me to ask but finally I was able to ask her, “how much do you love me?” I wanted to know because we had arrived at a crossroads. Here was the moment of truth when she could choose between “GD me” or clean slate other guy. Did she only love certain things about me but still have that quitting point at SRS? Was SRS still too much for her? Or did she love me unconditionally UP TO and even through SRS if that’s what it takes for me to find peace? Well, I'm happy to say, she said she wants me …even with all my issues. And just to make absolutely certain (because it’s my indicator of the true depth of her love for me) I asked her point blank, what if I need SRS someday. And her answer was, “It wont necessarily be the end of us”. I think she sees the essence of who I am and she loves that person. I think she knows that SRS can change my body but it wont change the person I am. She didn’t give me the green light but did say, with time, she can see herself accepting it. She is open to professional transition counseling for me starting now and perhaps by the end, she might be willing to give it her stamp of approval. The ideal for both of us at the moment is that I would always be her husband and father to our kids but be free to be myself (including body modifications) under clothing and behind closed doors. Please don't misunderstand, I don't have permission from her to transition and I'm not sure I would go through with it even if I did but there is at least the possibility now where before there was none.
And with that, everything came full circle, the lights came on and it all became clear to me. Suddenly I saw the connection between my gender issues and my fantasy. I was subconsciously releasing her. I love her so much I just couldn’t hold her captive in a marriage that isn’t what she signed up for no matter how painful releasing her might be for me. I was allowing her to explore options and move on if she felt compelled but trying to be a bridge for her between what she has now and whatever waits for her at the other end. Monday night left me convinced that she isn’t crossing the bridge and is furthermore, very content to remain in this side come whatever may. Sadly, you don’t have to visit this forum very often to know that GD is or can be very poisonous to a relationship. There’s no way that I could begin to explain how thankful I am or how aware of being blessed I am by the love (true love) I have from and for my wife. It’s truly amazing to saw the least! So to answer your question CK, does my significant other accept me? Yes! Absolutely. And she loves me too. Now I need to go find a tissue…
What a wonderful account of true love you have given us, Doodle. I read it through twice to fully absorb the significance of what has occurred in your life. Relationships often experience a turning point which leads to either a parting of the ways or a reaffirmation of the vows that were pronounced on your wedding day. I'm very happy that at this critical crossroads, you and your wife are following a single path together.
Clara
Clara
Awhile back, I bought and read a book entitled "My Husband Wears My Clothes". I think it was back when I had a relapse of cross-dressing after several years of resisting (suppressing) that particular aspect of my GD.
Chapter 6 of the book gets into the spousal relationship aspects of cross-dressing. I think it's just as relevant to the broader transgender issue.
The author, Peggy Rudd, discusses several ways to help the spouse overcome the initial unwillingness to accept her partner's transgender inclinations. I'll give just an outline:
1. Be honest about it
2. Be patient
3. Help around the house
4. Be best friends with your wife
5. Don't forget the husband and wife relationship
6. Help the wife accept [the new you]
----Go out together once a week
----Ask your wife to help you grow as a man and as a woman
----Demonstrate both your masculine and feminine qualities
----Allow her time to grow to understand and accept
----Make her feel she is most important in your life
----Permit your love to grow and express it
----Let her help you with your problems and needs
----Never walk away when she's crying
----Never raise your voice or abuse her
----Do not unjustly criticize her for things she can't change
----Do not reveal her faults to others
----Do not destroy her pride and self-esteem
----Treat her as a lady
----Demonstrate kindness through conversation and actions
----Don't hold back what is bothering you
----Be faithful
Interestingly, I found that the mental and emotional effects of PM (a new sense of well-being, patience, and sensitivity) make it much easier to follow these suggestions.
And if, after your best efforts over a reasonable length of time, no acceptance is forthcoming?
Punt.
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
CK
Chapter 6 of the book gets into the spousal relationship aspects of cross-dressing. I think it's just as relevant to the broader transgender issue.
The author, Peggy Rudd, discusses several ways to help the spouse overcome the initial unwillingness to accept her partner's transgender inclinations. I'll give just an outline:
1. Be honest about it
2. Be patient
3. Help around the house
4. Be best friends with your wife
5. Don't forget the husband and wife relationship
6. Help the wife accept [the new you]
----Go out together once a week
----Ask your wife to help you grow as a man and as a woman
----Demonstrate both your masculine and feminine qualities
----Allow her time to grow to understand and accept
----Make her feel she is most important in your life
----Permit your love to grow and express it
----Let her help you with your problems and needs
----Never walk away when she's crying
----Never raise your voice or abuse her
----Do not unjustly criticize her for things she can't change
----Do not reveal her faults to others
----Do not destroy her pride and self-esteem
----Treat her as a lady
----Demonstrate kindness through conversation and actions
----Don't hold back what is bothering you
----Be faithful
Interestingly, I found that the mental and emotional effects of PM (a new sense of well-being, patience, and sensitivity) make it much easier to follow these suggestions.
And if, after your best efforts over a reasonable length of time, no acceptance is forthcoming?
Punt.
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)CK
Clara, that list sounds like a good prescription for ANY marriage. Ironically, going through this process has put me much more in line with those precepts than I ever was before.
And Doodle, sweet wonderful Doodle, you had me in tears, dear friend. I am so happy for you!
What a great joy! You must feel like a thousand pound weight has been lifted off your shoulders. You have a wonderful and truly loving partner there to be sure. You are very lucky indeed.
So happy for you!
And Doodle, sweet wonderful Doodle, you had me in tears, dear friend. I am so happy for you!
What a great joy! You must feel like a thousand pound weight has been lifted off your shoulders. You have a wonderful and truly loving partner there to be sure. You are very lucky indeed.
So happy for you!
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