[flamesabers]

Hello all.

Here's a scale I devised to identify GD levels. It's my own design and while it may be very limited, I hope it's useful as a guide for reference purposes. The scale goes from being a 1 (transwoman) to being a 10 (cisgender male).

GD Scale

Transwoman (MtF Transsexual)

1 Has very severe GD
Is planning on transitioning or is already in the process
Has disclosed or will disclose herself to family/friends/co-workers

2 Has severe GD
Has strong and persistent desire to transition
Has significant difficulty trying to live and appear as a male

3 Has moderate GD
Has significant unhappiness due to discord between his sex and gender
Uses hormones to take the edge off of GD

4 Has mild-moderate GD
Likely to use hormones for relief of GD
May consider transitioning but is unsure and worried about coming out of the closest

5 Androgynous/third gender/no gender
May use hormones to reflect his internal gender identity
Acknowledges and respects both feminine and masculine traits

6 Has mild GD
Has a strong feminine side, but is otherwise able to function as a male
May use hormones or seek therapy to determine the extent of his feminine side

7 Envies females but still retains a male identity
May crossdress in public and/or try to pass as a female
Considers using hormones but wants to keep his virility

8 May crossdress in private with or without significant other's knowledge
Wonders what it would be like to be a woman but has no real interest in hormones or surgery
Relatively content being a male for a majority of the time

9 Has occasional fantasies or thoughts about being a woman
Does nothing to indulge on these fantasies
Satisfied with living and appearing as a male

10 Happy being a male
Being a woman is bizarre, unimaginable or disturbing
Has zero interest in feminine activities or interests

Cisgender Male

Please share any feedback or thoughts you may have on this.

[GoneGirl]

Nice job, Flame. You've obviously put a good deal of thought into developing this scale. I like it.

One thought kept popping up, though. I was bothered by it being called 'GD Scale' rather than, say, 'Gender Identity Scale'. I don't think that the degree of dysphoria that one experiences is a reliable way to decide where on the scale one falls.

I think it's possible to have a strong female gender ID while not experiencing psychological trauma. GD is a mental disorder caused by being deprived of a means to express one's gender identity. The two are really independent conditions that often coincide within an individual, but, in many cases, do not.

I believe I have a gender identity which is strongly female. I would estimate it being equal to my male identity. That bi-gender split has not changed over my life time, but the GD that I once experienced has all but disappeared recently as a result of allowing my female identity a certain amount of freedom to fulfill itself.

That fact made it very hard for me to place myself on the scale. I found that a could be anywhere from a 4 to a 7, so I settled on 5. But 'Andogynous, third gender, no gender' doesn't seem to fit me. We get into the problems associated with labeling that Sammie, Missed Miss, and others have made good arguments against.

I do think that my 'Gender Identity' is about in the middle of the scale. I could go either way in terms of gender expression, particularly if I was young again. To me, 'androgynous' is more of a style of gender expression or presentation than a gauge of gender identity. Being split more or less equally between my male and female identities, I tend to flip back and forth between presenting as one gender or the other. Any mental discomfort I feel today is just the unease of presenting as female in a culture which still doesn't accept gender fluidity as a normal human condition.

I hope my comments make some sense, Flame, and I do think what you've come up with is a good start.

Clara

[undecided]

Hello all.

Here's a scale I devised to identify GD levels. It's my own design and while it may be very limited, I hope it's useful as a guide for reference purposes. The scale goes from being a 1 (transwoman) to being a 10 (cisgender male).

GD Scale



6 Has mild GD
Has a strong feminine side, but is otherwise able to function as a male
May use hormones or seek therapy to determine the extent of his feminine side

7 Envies females but still retains a male identity
May crossdress in public and/or try to pass as a female
Considers using hormones but wants to keep his virility

8 May crossdress in private with or without significant other's knowledge
Wonders what it would be like to be a woman but has no real interest in hormones or surgery
Relatively content being a male for a majority of the time



Cisgender Male

Please share any feedback or thoughts you may have on this.

Great list.

I could probably float anywhere between 6, 7, 8, on any given day.

[flamesabers]

Clara,

Thank you for your feedback.

I think a separate scale would be needed to measure gender identity. I agree with your point: GD and gender identity don't necessarily have to go hand-in-hand. For those who are suffering from GD, my intention is to provide a degree of measurement others can relate to. Those who are not suffering from GD, this scale is probably irrelevant.

I think bi-gendered could also be included for the number '5' point.

Janet,

Thank you.

[GoneGirl]

Those who are not suffering from GD, this scale is probably irrelevant.

That's my problem. Why wouldn't someone not suffering from GD not have a place on the scale?

I would think a GD scale would span from 'No GD at all' (1) to 'Severe/debilitating GD' (10). In that case I would be at the low end -- probably a 1 or a 2 having dropped from near mid-scale a year ago.

I think a MTF crossgender ID scale would span from 'No female identity' (1) to 'A woman trapped in a man's body" (10). In that case I would fall in the middle -- 'Bi-gender' (5). The two scales relate to what are really two independent variables.

I realize you are attempting to combine the two into a single scale that assumes, as is often the case, that the degree of GD is closely correlated to the degree of female identity and associated behaviors.

I see each of us as a point on a two dimensional (X-Y) graph. The origin represents a cisgender male. Someone who is in need of therapy due to severe psychological problems associated with a gender identity conflict would plot at the far NE corner of the graph.

I'm probably being unnecessarily critical. The fact is, I like the concept you are presenting. I understand the problems of pigeon-holing people, but it can be useful at times, as well.

Clara

[MichelleM]

Sorry to be somewhat OT, but I had to say that Clara, as another engineer, you literally made me laugh out loud by your comments. I could hear myself saying almost the exact same words! Saying things like that really are an occasional hazard, aren't they?

Michelle

[Samantha Rogers]

Well, Flame, you know how I loooovvve boxes and labels, tee hee, (dripping with sarcasm), but since you obviously put a lot of thought into this I will play along.
Somedays I am a 6, or a 7. But some days I am a 4 and can border on a 3. Often I am a 5, but never a 1 or 2, and never 8 or higher. So , 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 depending on day, time, level of stress, level of hormone balance, amount of pink fog, whether the moon is in aquarius, whether I am happy or sad, angry or ecstatic, what I had for breakfast or how many drinks I have had, what my work day was like, whether my wife is in a good or bad mood, if the monthly bills are due, how my kids are doing in school, whether one of them just wrecked another car, and especially whether th rhino has been prowling around lately....lol....well, you get the idea. Tee hee...Sammie is all over the map, sweetheart.
But thats just me.
Love you Flame!

[Misty0732]

Flame,

I have a few questions. When you say "uses hormones" are you including PM in the mix? I also assume that you're asking about our feelings when we are not taking the hormones (and/or PM)?

If so, I fall somewhere between 3 and 5.

When I'm on PM I'm around a 9.

Misty

[flamesabers]

Clara,

A 2-d xy graph sounds like a good idea. My one concern though is it may make such a scale much more complicated. I suppose the horizontal scale could represent gender identity, while the vertical scale is for GD. Perhaps we should use numbers for gender identity and letters for GD. (Bra size anyway? )

Do you think I should stick to using 10 points for each axis? If I stay with that number, my graph would generate 100 different combinations! It would be hard though for me to describe 100 different variations of gender identity and GD. I would likely need some help. Maybe I should reduce it down to 5 points on each axis for simplicity purposes?

Samantha,

Your emotions/behavior sounds very human.

Misty,

Yes, hormones would include pm. I used hormones as a generic term to describe any product, whether it be herbal or pharma to feminize oneself.

[Samantha Rogers]

Human....yes, lol. I suppose that is one box we can agree on.