Hello all,
As the title of the thread states, I'm taking option B in a post I made earlier:
Going cold turkey on pm isn't working for me apparently, neither for my goal of physical fitness, nor for my overall well-being. I'm deciding to try going on pm at a low level for a while to see if that helps balance things out. While pm may be a mild to moderate barrier for physical fitness, I think being in a better mood overall is crucial for me to fully pursue any sort of exercise regime. Also, I really dislike how these involuntary erections have come back in force!![[Image: smiley-scared003.gif]](http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-scared003.gif)
As the title of the thread states, I'm taking option B in a post I made earlier:
Quote:In regards to androgens and physical fitness I see three options available to me:
1. I resume pm and other NBE herbs. I try to get obtain physical fitness without any real help from androgens.
2. I try to reach a halfway point between pursing NBE and utilizing androgens to boost my physical fitness.
3. I stay off of NBE herbs indefinitely while trying to build up my physical fitness.
Going cold turkey on pm isn't working for me apparently, neither for my goal of physical fitness, nor for my overall well-being. I'm deciding to try going on pm at a low level for a while to see if that helps balance things out. While pm may be a mild to moderate barrier for physical fitness, I think being in a better mood overall is crucial for me to fully pursue any sort of exercise regime. Also, I really dislike how these involuntary erections have come back in force!
(14-04-2014, 05:10 AM)Epicene Wrote: Hey flamesabers,
Could you give an explanation on what exactly your fitness goals are (weight loss, muscle, metabolism, speed, etc.)? It makes a huge difference in what your hormone levels should ideally be at.
All of the above with a possible exception of muscle. I would like to improve my muscular endurance, but I have no desire to "bulk up."
I say you should stop the PM for the time being in favor of prolactin and progesterone sources in lower amounts. FG at less than 2000mg maybe. High estrogen levels are where your physical energy can get a bit too low. Same in biological females. Take as little AA as you need.
FG is great as an adaptogen, and it helped me in yoga. Flax is good for nutrients and fitness as well as decent in NBE. Use the oil though. It's good in salads. Turmeric is similar. Maca helped me work out, but you need to watch how you eat as it can increase the appetite a bit.
For fitness-specific stuff, look at your health. Do your muscles begin burning early for poor endurance? Look at cardio or breathing exercises. Herbs like ginger and cayenne can help too. Weight loss: look at your digestive health and diet vs activity. Plenty herbs can help with this too. I've heard great things about raspberry ketones. Metabolism is tricky, but regular activity and good nutrition are best to keep it going aside from the muscle building.
I'd go over nutrition, but that's something that people should really explore themselves. Just pay more attention, and you'll do better.
Pick an exercise routine and stick with it. Do lots of cardio. Plyometrics, jogging, and running are all great. Do flexibility exercises too. I like yoga, and I think it can help with a feminine physique. There are lots of other feminization exercises in flexibility that may provide more motivation to you. Push ups, and any body weight exercises are fine, but I'd say avoid anything with weights until back on a higher NBE dose. You can get a feminine tone weightlifting with high estrogen, but you won't bulk up too easily.
FG is great as an adaptogen, and it helped me in yoga. Flax is good for nutrients and fitness as well as decent in NBE. Use the oil though. It's good in salads. Turmeric is similar. Maca helped me work out, but you need to watch how you eat as it can increase the appetite a bit.
For fitness-specific stuff, look at your health. Do your muscles begin burning early for poor endurance? Look at cardio or breathing exercises. Herbs like ginger and cayenne can help too. Weight loss: look at your digestive health and diet vs activity. Plenty herbs can help with this too. I've heard great things about raspberry ketones. Metabolism is tricky, but regular activity and good nutrition are best to keep it going aside from the muscle building.
I'd go over nutrition, but that's something that people should really explore themselves. Just pay more attention, and you'll do better.
Pick an exercise routine and stick with it. Do lots of cardio. Plyometrics, jogging, and running are all great. Do flexibility exercises too. I like yoga, and I think it can help with a feminine physique. There are lots of other feminization exercises in flexibility that may provide more motivation to you. Push ups, and any body weight exercises are fine, but I'd say avoid anything with weights until back on a higher NBE dose. You can get a feminine tone weightlifting with high estrogen, but you won't bulk up too easily.
(14-04-2014, 05:15 AM)flamesabers Wrote:(14-04-2014, 05:10 AM)Epicene Wrote: Hey flamesabers,
Could you give an explanation on what exactly your fitness goals are (weight loss, muscle, metabolism, speed, etc.)? It makes a huge difference in what your hormone levels should ideally be at.
All of the above with a possible exception of muscle. I would like to improve my muscular endurance, but I have no desire to "bulk up."
What are you doing at the moment as far as diet/exercise?
Epicene,
Are you saying a pm daily dose of 1,000 mg- 1,500 mg could be a big hindrance for me? I would prefer to have even a minimal amount of pm in my system just to ward off the involuntary erections and such.
Would progesterone cream be an acceptable source of progesterone you think? I would like to use what I have onhand versus having to buy more stuff like fenugreek and maca.
I think my muscles do begin to burn more easily due to poor endurance. I want to do something relatively simple like push-ups, sit-ups, and running with maybe a few variances of these exercises.
Lenneth,
As of now I'm doing push-ups, sit-ups, and running. I don't have a gym membership and not much on my own exercise equipment.
Both of you,
I really appreciate your replies. I don't have a exercise buddy in real life, so maybe this forum will have to do as far as staying motivated and getting physically fit!
Are you saying a pm daily dose of 1,000 mg- 1,500 mg could be a big hindrance for me? I would prefer to have even a minimal amount of pm in my system just to ward off the involuntary erections and such.
Would progesterone cream be an acceptable source of progesterone you think? I would like to use what I have onhand versus having to buy more stuff like fenugreek and maca.
I think my muscles do begin to burn more easily due to poor endurance. I want to do something relatively simple like push-ups, sit-ups, and running with maybe a few variances of these exercises.
Lenneth,
As of now I'm doing push-ups, sit-ups, and running. I don't have a gym membership and not much on my own exercise equipment.
Both of you,
I really appreciate your replies. I don't have a exercise buddy in real life, so maybe this forum will have to do as far as staying motivated and getting physically fit!
(15-04-2014, 03:12 AM)flamesabers Wrote: Epicene,
Are you saying a pm daily dose of 1,000 mg- 1,500 mg could be a big hindrance for me? I would prefer to have even a minimal amount of pm in my system just to ward off the involuntary erections and such.
Would progesterone cream be an acceptable source of progesterone you think? I would like to use what I have onhand versus having to buy more stuff like fenugreek and maca.
I think my muscles do begin to burn more easily due to poor endurance. I want to do something relatively simple like push-ups, sit-ups, and running with maybe a few variances of these exercises.
Lenneth,
As of now I'm doing push-ups, sit-ups, and running. I don't have a gym membership and not much on my own exercise equipment.
Both of you,
I really appreciate your replies. I don't have a exercise buddy in real life, so maybe this forum will have to do as far as staying motivated and getting physically fit!
I've been following the tips on this page and so-far they are working.
http://www.reneereyes.com/Crossdress%20Survival%20Guide/Crossdresser%20Transformation/Crossdresser%20Exercise%20Tips/index.html
Flamesabers,
I think your regime is similar to mine, I am mainly just doing the carbs, I am running at least 45 mins a day, I am doing squats and some light kettlebell work to make up the difference, thinking about doing planking to firm up my tummy.
As for 'drugs':
I take a Thermabol by Maximuscle, and Raspberry Keytones but I don't think either make much difference. The Thermabol, seems to help me go longer without feeling puffed. I'm on 1000mg PM after run, so only what is residual, oh and I don't eat before running (which I know is bad).
In terms of success, I am on a weight loss target rather than fitness plan (although both seem to go together), when I turn up the pace and do two runs a day, then I see a nice upward motion on [lean mass %], and I never really thought about the androgen issue as I have always recently run while on herbs. Keep going, it does get easier when your muscle mass 'gets used' to the activity you are doing.
I think the most important thing is to manage your diet though, I use both a withings scale and myfitnesspal, using this set of tools has stopped me snacking and made me realise exactly how much I am eating and drinking. So now I plan my meals a bit better and feel better for it.
PM me if you'd like to connect on Withings or MyfitnessPal and I'll give you my account name.
Good luck
Groundmoss
I think your regime is similar to mine, I am mainly just doing the carbs, I am running at least 45 mins a day, I am doing squats and some light kettlebell work to make up the difference, thinking about doing planking to firm up my tummy.
As for 'drugs':
I take a Thermabol by Maximuscle, and Raspberry Keytones but I don't think either make much difference. The Thermabol, seems to help me go longer without feeling puffed. I'm on 1000mg PM after run, so only what is residual, oh and I don't eat before running (which I know is bad).
In terms of success, I am on a weight loss target rather than fitness plan (although both seem to go together), when I turn up the pace and do two runs a day, then I see a nice upward motion on [lean mass %], and I never really thought about the androgen issue as I have always recently run while on herbs. Keep going, it does get easier when your muscle mass 'gets used' to the activity you are doing.
I think the most important thing is to manage your diet though, I use both a withings scale and myfitnesspal, using this set of tools has stopped me snacking and made me realise exactly how much I am eating and drinking. So now I plan my meals a bit better and feel better for it.
PM me if you'd like to connect on Withings or MyfitnessPal and I'll give you my account name.
Good luck
Groundmoss
[quote='flamesabers' pid='109763' dateline='1397429472']
As the title of the thread states, I'm taking option B in a post I made earlier:
[quote]In regards to androgens and physical fitness I see three options available to me:
2. I try to reach a halfway point between pursing NBE and utilizing androgens to boost my physical fitness.
[/quote]
Hi Flame,
I certainly understand your dilemma. I am also trying to strike a balance -- I don't want the return of the "male" behavior but do want some of the benefits that T provides (but for a slightly different reason than you).
I just passed the 4 month anniversary of my back surgery. The surgery went fine. However, 4 months later, I am still experiencing nerve compression symptoms and issues (particularly later in the day).
My physical therapist (who is very good, BTW) tells me that my core muscles are very weak (and almost show signs of atrophy). They used to be just the opposite. I am guessing that the reason is my virtually non-existent T coupled with 2 years of being unable to do any real strength training. Anyway, she tells me that until my core recovers the muscles are too weak to compensate for my weakened spine and I will continue to have issues (especially as the day wears on and the muscles tire).
I remember reading that T increases muscle protein synthesis by 50x. So, by allowing at least some of my natural T to return, by adding a high-protein diet, and continuing to introduce core-targeted strength training, I'm hoping to reverse the trend and rebuilt my core muscles. Of course I'll always have to keep them strong as well.
I am very interested to see if you are able to find the balance between NBE herbs (particularly PM) and natural T that relieves the GD but still allows for better fitness. That's also my goal, but I'm not sure it's even possible.
Good luck and best wishes,
Misty
As the title of the thread states, I'm taking option B in a post I made earlier:
[quote]In regards to androgens and physical fitness I see three options available to me:
2. I try to reach a halfway point between pursing NBE and utilizing androgens to boost my physical fitness.
[/quote]
Hi Flame,
I certainly understand your dilemma. I am also trying to strike a balance -- I don't want the return of the "male" behavior but do want some of the benefits that T provides (but for a slightly different reason than you).
I just passed the 4 month anniversary of my back surgery. The surgery went fine. However, 4 months later, I am still experiencing nerve compression symptoms and issues (particularly later in the day).
My physical therapist (who is very good, BTW) tells me that my core muscles are very weak (and almost show signs of atrophy). They used to be just the opposite. I am guessing that the reason is my virtually non-existent T coupled with 2 years of being unable to do any real strength training. Anyway, she tells me that until my core recovers the muscles are too weak to compensate for my weakened spine and I will continue to have issues (especially as the day wears on and the muscles tire).
I remember reading that T increases muscle protein synthesis by 50x. So, by allowing at least some of my natural T to return, by adding a high-protein diet, and continuing to introduce core-targeted strength training, I'm hoping to reverse the trend and rebuilt my core muscles. Of course I'll always have to keep them strong as well.
I am very interested to see if you are able to find the balance between NBE herbs (particularly PM) and natural T that relieves the GD but still allows for better fitness. That's also my goal, but I'm not sure it's even possible.
Good luck and best wishes,
Misty
A thing I have learned about exercise... it's boring! That is, when all you do is walk, run, lift weights, or similar activities that are really just... activities... it's easy to burn out.
I did the jogging thing for quite a while. It becomes such a chore after a while -- I'd have to force myself to do it. I found for myself there's little additional benefit to it over walking, besides being in shape to jog further. The downside is wrecking your joints with bad running technique, which is almost everyone. Heck with that.
I did weight lifting when I was younger. That gets pretty tedious after a while, too... "a while" being about 10 minutes. I stuck it out for a year, which was long enough to learn that my girlish frame ain't ever gonna win no Mr Universe contests.
However... make your workout part of a hobby, and it's like you're not working out. Maybe your thing is kayaking, hiking, biking, gardening, name it. Do it aggressively and often, and your strength and endurance will surely improve just as quickly as if you were doing a boring workout. The real key to fitness is movement in and of itself, not a specific type of movement.
Myself, I've taken up dance and yoga. Granted, yoga feels a bit like work, but I'm finding (never expected to in my life!) that dancing is such a rapturous and joyful thing that I don't notice how hard my body is actually working! I'm working muscles I didn't know I had (which is particularly amazing for me considering my younger years in manual labor -- I already had good core strength) and dropping flab.
I still do go walk several miles once a week, twice at most. That could be boring, but familiarizing myself with the flora and fauna around... looking for the blooms of a particular wild edible, or listening for the noises of songbirds, makes it something more than just exercise.
In short, fun things are really a better workout, physically and mentally, than hard things. Maybe I'm just easily bored, and your mileage may vary... but I find it's good advice for folks who get frustrated with lack of progress from exercise alone.
I did the jogging thing for quite a while. It becomes such a chore after a while -- I'd have to force myself to do it. I found for myself there's little additional benefit to it over walking, besides being in shape to jog further. The downside is wrecking your joints with bad running technique, which is almost everyone. Heck with that.
I did weight lifting when I was younger. That gets pretty tedious after a while, too... "a while" being about 10 minutes. I stuck it out for a year, which was long enough to learn that my girlish frame ain't ever gonna win no Mr Universe contests.
However... make your workout part of a hobby, and it's like you're not working out. Maybe your thing is kayaking, hiking, biking, gardening, name it. Do it aggressively and often, and your strength and endurance will surely improve just as quickly as if you were doing a boring workout. The real key to fitness is movement in and of itself, not a specific type of movement.
Myself, I've taken up dance and yoga. Granted, yoga feels a bit like work, but I'm finding (never expected to in my life!) that dancing is such a rapturous and joyful thing that I don't notice how hard my body is actually working! I'm working muscles I didn't know I had (which is particularly amazing for me considering my younger years in manual labor -- I already had good core strength) and dropping flab.
I still do go walk several miles once a week, twice at most. That could be boring, but familiarizing myself with the flora and fauna around... looking for the blooms of a particular wild edible, or listening for the noises of songbirds, makes it something more than just exercise.
In short, fun things are really a better workout, physically and mentally, than hard things. Maybe I'm just easily bored, and your mileage may vary... but I find it's good advice for folks who get frustrated with lack of progress from exercise alone.
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