[marshallenfj]

Hi All,

This thread may be counterproductive for many of you but I've seen a few others in forums asking about this and would like to pool information. I'm new to all of this but it's something I've always been interested in. I've been doing a lot of research, know what I want, and would really appreciate any advice or experience you all could share.  

I'm a 26 y/o male with a large frame, 6'5", 230 lbs and relatively athletic but have gained some belly fat over the last two years.  Also, I hit puberty early, grew fast, I've pretty much always done sports, usually have high energy, and though my hair up top is thinning I'm pretty hairy everywhere else so I think it's safe to say I have high testosterone.  I've always been interested in feminization, did some private crossdressing, and the idea of growing breasts is something I find wildly exciting. I would honestly love a pair of my own breasts, but I just don't see that looking good on me and I'm not willing to gamble losing relationships or compromising my future on an experiment to grow breasts, at least not yet.  However, I love the look of a feminine figure and would really like to try to develop some curves. A bubble butt, thick thighs, and a smaller waist is look I would love to have as I'm just starting to get back into working out, plus it's something I know I could achieve and work on without having to worry about hiding it.

So that's where I want to start, developing a figure while minimizing breast growth and retaining male function.  My planned daily regimen is below, any feedback on supplements and dosing would be greatly appreciated since I haven't seen other threads about feminization while limiting breast growth.

My planned daily regimen right now:
2 x 450mg Saw Palmetto tablets, Nature's Bounty
5g Maca Root, Mykind Organics
2 x 80mg Pueararia Mirifica, Solgar PM Phytogen

I was considering taking the 500mg Ainterol PM tablets for a while but I don't want to deal with breast growth and all the other side effects. So I went to nearby holistic health store and picked up the Solgar PM to see how I handled it, but taking 6 tablets to get 500mg of PM made me dizzy and unwell.  In hindsight, this was really stupid as it has a couple other vitamins such as 1000mg of B12, which is 16,667% DV, in one tablet.  So I'm trying to be careful.  I know people say maca is good for developing downstairs but haven't seen posts about how it develops breasts.

Let me know what you all think!  And thanks in advance.

[Shirazmn]

Hi There, and welcome.

I will start by saying that I have no idea about the effects of Maca, so I will not comment on that and I'll leave it to others.

Regarding fat redistribution in the bum, I quote myself from another thread:
<< Fat redistribution takes a while to show in bum and hips. The reason is that you need a lot more fat to increase any already large areas than you need in the chest. If you want to speed thing up on your backside then you should start doing some butt-oriented exercises like many women do. (Cardio, squats... Etc..). There is a group on reddit called "sissy fitness" about this. Do that while on PM and you should get some results in a couple of months. >>

So, growing a butt takes longer than growing boobs because, simply put, it's already big to start with and it takes longer to notice a difference. I also insist on the fact that "fat redistribution" is a misleading term: fat is taken from fat areas only to be burnt in the cells and not to be moved around. You will have to "grow new fat" in the new areas (hormones will dictate where) and you'll burn it equally from the all of your body. The illusion of "redistribution" comes from the fact that you will not get deposits in "male" areas while taking estrogens. Also, this means that you'll gain weight before losing fat where you don't want it.

Saw Palmetto is a mild anti-androgen. Its only function is to lower your testosterone, not to feminize your body. It helps in conjunction with estrogens if you want to feminize your body. Its effect, needless to say, are spread all over your body. In a healthy male lowering testosterone is likely to cause fatigue and give you the feeling of having less energy. Be careful.

The PM you are taking is NOT the same as Ainterol. What you are taking is extract (mixed with other stuff and way too much vitamin B12). The usual concentration for extracts is 10:1, so when taking 2 pills per day you were actually taking 2x800 mg pure ainterol equivalent. While 1600 mg/day is not a super high dosage (and I suspect that extracts are weaker anyway) it is more than you need to start growing boobs.

A way that always works to make anything grow in a human body is to increase blood flow in the area. Massage, exercize, bit of spanking ( ) in your lower area should help growing a feminine bum while taking some estrogens, but don't expect that to happen without breast growth.

One last thing: you are tall and you say you have a wide frame. Permanent breast tissue takes a while to appear (budding). Until that moment, all you might grow on yor chest is fat and will go away after a while. Still, if you really want to avoid any sort of breast growth then I would suggest you stay away from anything contaiining PM, or any estrogen really, because boobs are the first thing the body will try to grow.

[PleasantlyFascinated]

Similar goals here.

My strategy is dietary + hormone optimization + workout.

I limit carbs to very small percentage of daily caloric intake.  Check out paleo or keto nutritional concepts.  Check out Dr. William Davis' "Wheat Belly" for excellent primer on dietary mistakes we have been making.  I have thereby eliminated all visceral fat, and have regained high-school proportions of 29 inch waist on a 6 foot frame. 

I limit testosterone conversion to DHT with daily saw palmetto, chrysin, mama, muira puama, stinging nettle, Norway spruce extract.  I also use daily topical progesterone USP, which is good 5-alpha reductase inhibitor (reduce conversion of T to DHT), somewhat curtails excess body hair and certainly helps maintain full head of hair.

My workouts emphasize pectoral, butt, thigh, calf development.

[marshallenfj]

Ok, wow.  I'm really glad I started this thread because I had no idea that the Solgar PM Extract was that much more powerful than the Ainterol I was comparing it to.  I found this article recommending it, and even though it's an online article and I don't really trust it, taking something that my local health store carries is far more comfortable for me than ordering pills online.  Also, it says that Ainterol may not have true PM and Solgar does, so I knew it was stronger.

I've been reading many success stories with Ainterol PM, men taking doses up to 3000mg daily for months, and posting their changes. So my thinking was that I want slow, steady changes to make sure that I'm getting what I want and managing side effects. My plan was to take a low dose daily (below what would be the equivalent of 1500mg Ainterol) for a month to kick-start physical changes, monitor closely to see how I react, and adjust from there.  I would not mind at all if fat 'redistributed' to my chest, I think I'd really enjoy it actually, and while I would love my own pair of real boobs I do not want to develop breast buds in the near future.

Right now, I just want the ass and some curves.  And perhaps I should have mentioned that I was a competitive rower for 4 years and it got me to college which is why I'm confident I can put in the physical work for it, figure out managing fat distribution, and why this specifically appeals to me.  Rowing is almost all legs and back and I had real thing for the strong female rowers with curves. My ideal body goal would be something similar, like a muscular, badass shemale but I recognize that's more of a fetish and fantasy than how I want to live right now.  I'd much rather be healthy, look sexy as hell, and be completely comfortable around people than grow boobs, despite how enticing they are for me to grow.

That said, I'm keeping some estrogen in my regimen so I can develop curves and see how it affects me, but I'm dropping the Solgar PM to one tablet daily, so 80mg of PM extract, so equivalent to 800mg of Ainterol PM I suppose, though it's probably less.  I'm keeping the Saw Palmetto at 900mg daily but may drop it to 450mg daily. From my internet research it apparently does not have any impact on testosterone and muscle building, but does prevent T from becoming DHT which is responsible for things like balding, body hair, and aggression/energy.  This is fine for me because Maca is an aphrodesiac and energy booster so I will still have energy for exercises, I only worry about this because while it supposedly works mainly on your hips it will have an effect on my chest.  I started this thread to gauge that effect as I've seen photo results of people using PM and Maca and getting some really great curves, but yes, I recognize taking any estrogen like this will give me boobs eventually, which is why I'm being so careful.

Shirazm - I took a look at the sissy fitness and got some workouts for my workout plan, which is 90 minutes three times a week.

- 30 min cardio, rowing machine or running
- 30 min weights, 1st day focusing lower, 2nd day focusing upper, and 3rd focusing torso/lower
- 30 min abs/yoga/stretching

PleasantlyFascinated - Yes, I'm hoping to accomplish a lot with diet and exercise, I've also got a spreadsheet I'm updating daily with my diet, exercise, and supplements including the herbs I'm taking, caffeine, and protein.  I was going to do carbs to keep my energy up, but reading more I think I'm going to start a Keto diet plan like you suggested.  Since I'm also trying to lose weight and just get physically fit, it'll be interesting to see what effects this all has on me.

Sorry if this is all information overload, I'm pretty anal (lol cus I want a butt) and like keeping things organized.  A few years ago I had a vericocele surgery that left me uncomfortable for about a year afterwards, and it was only about 2 weeks between noticing it and the surgery. It was the right choice, just very sudden. So even though I know that feminization is a part of my life, that I want this, and have been researching for months, I'm very wary about jumping into modifying my body and playing with my hormones.

Thanks very much for your responses!  I would love to know more information or hear about experiences with maca if anyone has something to share.

[Shirazmn]

Happy to help

Just one note or two:

I have been an Ainterol customer for a few years, taking it intentionally very very slow. Their PM is real and the best you can get. Actually, somehow it gets better with every passing year according to the stories I read here and on their forum (which is legit). Because extracts strength varies both with the extraction process and the quality of the row material I would always advise against extracts. Particularly if they are in a mix with way too much vitamin B12 (check the bottle you have). If you have any intention to try PM, do it with the real deal and not some mixed compound. Stay at, or below, 1000 mg/day of pure PM from Ainterol and you'll get all the results you want, plus you'll see changes coming to your chest early enough to stop taking it before you have permanent changes.

Second thing: about social acceptance.
Look through my thread and you'll find some recent pics. There isn't much to chime for, I don't have feminine shaped breasts, but I have enough to know that they are boobs (both weight and sensations have changed). I have to update the pics, actually, as I've been on PM 3 weeks more and things have changed a bit. Anyway, I take my son to the public swimming pool everyday and nobody has said anything. Not even a second look. I too have a wide chest because of years of swimming and people probably think that I am just a bit chubby (which I am anyway). So, you know "boobs" and you see "boobs" on your chest, but other people won't think that you are taking stuff to grow a feminine body so they won't even think of your chest as "boobs".

[marshallenfj]

Thanks for the info, Shirazm.  Social acceptance is a concern, but I luckily live in very accepting place and I have no doubt my family and friends would accept and support me after making sure it's what I really wanted.  With my family, I could probably come out as trans and have things turn out fine.  No, my main concern is that this could be so easy, I get so addicted to it, and that I would be so supported that I fully develop breasts and then realize it's not what I want or be unable to leave California without major difficulties.

I did more research last night and came across miroestrol dosage last night, this is the estrogen in PM that's so powerful.  The Solgar PM Phytogen tablets I'm using contain 16mcg of miroestrol in an 80mg tablet, there is also16mcg of isoflavinoids, another compound affecting hormones.  

Ainterol 500mg PM tablets contain 40.53 to 42.10 mg Miroestrol per 100g, so 500mg of Ainterol PM contains over 200mcg of Miroestrol.  Therefore, one pill of Ainterol PM is about 10x as potent as the Solgar I'm taking.  There's no doubt that Ainterol PM is the way to go for getting this powerful estrogen.

Since I have this Solgar, I'm going to finish out the 60 tablets, which will take a month since I will be taking 2 per day. I'm not expecting any results from this but if I get Ainterol after this, I feel like I'll be more prepared.  Also, I'll be able to tell the effect maca has on me.  According to some women's forums on getting bigger hips, it's taken some people 3 weeks to a month to notice things.

Anyway! Just some interesting biochemistry stuff. And I found Lotus's threads, who has really great and accurate info and actually covered this same thing in a different thread.

I'm also buying some of Ainterol's PM cream, people have said this is can be applied to hips as well.  Anyone have any results experiences with this cream they can share, breast or butt?