Hi everyone! I've been lurking here for a month or so and I've started taking PM and some other things in the last week. I'm going to be an aberration on these forums, as breast growth is probably my least desired result from the herbal supplements I've been taking. I'm non-binary and not really looking to do full HRT. I am interested in the other benefits of estrogen: redistributed fat, less body hair growth, softer skin, etc. though I think I would be happy with some barely-there breast tissue and more pronounced nipples and areolae. I am married and my wife is very supportive and accepting of me, but for a variety of reasons I am more or less closeted in most other facets of my life and would like to be able to continue presenting myself as a man where necessary for now. I thought PM would be a good way to just dip my toe in the water, see how my body might respond, and see how it feels. I am keeping my options open about seeing a doctor about these things a little further down the line, depending on our life situation and how I like what herbal supplements do for me.
This started with a pygeum supplement that I started taking for some urinary problems. I didn't have any identifiable problems that my doctor could find, but after I hit 30 I was not as efficient as I used to be, and the internet suggested that pygeum might help things even if I didn't have an underlying prostate problem. Sure enough, pygeum helped a bunch, and then it had the added bonus of noticeably increased sexual function, at least in the short term. With one capsule a day I would have some increased arousal, stronger orgasms, better erections, and with two to four capsules a day I would have stronger versions of these benefits. But the lower dose had diminishing returns as the weeks would go on, and the higher doses would stop benefiting me within a week or so and would quickly turn into sexual dysfunction in the form of decreased libido and difficulty achieving erection. I was on and off pygeum for the last couple years before finally being spooked and curious enough to do some research. I quickly figured out that pygeum might have some anti-androgenic properties, and being as curious as I was about HRT my research quickly led me here and to Pueraria Mirifica.
Here's the stuff I've been taking so far:
Pueraria Mirifica 500mg capsules from a sketchy-looking seller on amazon. I would have loved to have bought from a brand that people here vouched for, but I couldn't pass up a $7 introduction. I got 60 capsules, hoping it would last me 1-2 months.
White Peony root 500mg capsules from Solaray (Paeonia lactiflora, guaranteed to contain 10% paeoniflorin)
Licorice Root 900mg from Nature's Way, which I might be cutting out completely due to the potential side effects and due to research that suggests that it is as good at inhibiting aromatase as it is at lowering testosterone and having estrogenic effetcs.
Pygeum 500mg (from Swanson?) that I also have stopped taking and would like to stay away from if White Peony is effective, as I have found research that suggests that Pygeum is not only an anti-androgen but also an anti-estrogen.
The story so far: I had been taking Pygeum before starting the other stuff, and I am convinced that its anti-androgenic properties gave me a head start, as I started seeing results within three days in the form of silky smooth skin and my erections completely disappeared, I wasn't even getting morning wood. My erections have somewhat recovered in the last few days, but my nipples have become very perky and sensitive and I am feeling some soreness in my chest on both sides near my armpits. My skin has continued to get softer and feels incredible right now. I also have had a major increase in appetite and have completely surrendered to it, as I was a bit underweight and figured I should try to pack on the pounds while on pueraria. It's only been a week so there isn't much gain, but it feels like fat is going to my chest and to my ass moreso than my gut. I have big shoulders and a fairly wide chest on top of a very slim waist and narrow hips, so I am really hoping to see more weight go to my hips and legs over the course of this experiment. I am not unhappy with my immediate results though I am worried that I will have considerable breast growth in a short time given my current sensations, while I was hoping for little to none in the short term. I do have concerns about the side effects I have experienced and would like to list those here to make sure they don't ring any alarm bells for those of you who have a lot of time with these supplements and on these forums:
My body temperature has been elevated (up to a more average 98.5-99, while I usually run a couple degrees cooler) and I am often cold, especially in my extremities, moreso in my feet than my hands. Or I'm extremely warm. My body can't decide. I have to wear socks around the house now, which is not something I generally do. Anyone else have any experiences like this?
I have had some headaches here and there, a couple of them quite severe. I guess this isn't uncommon with pueraria and with estrogen in general, so I haven't been overly worried.
My legs are achey and sometimes cramping, particularly at night.
I've gotten redness in my feet and sometimes my hands when moving from cold to warm or warm to cold as long as I can remember. I thought this was a normal body response, but it has been noticeably exaggerated since I've started PM, accompanied by a warm sensation. Is this ok? Am I experiencing a circulation problem?
I take adderall for adhd, and it has improved my quality of life considerably. If I had to choose between that and hormones I would absolutely choose the adderall. Any reason why one might interfere with the other?
I am taking one 500mg PM in the morning and have taken a second one in the evening a few times. I took the 900mg licorice twice a day the first couple days and then took it more sporadically and now might completely cut it out. I have taken the 500mg peony twice a day but I'm moving up to three times a day. Anyone have any ideas about white peony dosage or about side effects with too much? That's one big thing I haven't been able to find here on the forums.
Anyone have any thoughts about the pygeum and licorice? I was surprised to see research suggesting their aromatose-inhibiting and anti-estrogenic properties given the way they've been described here on the forums. Anyone have sources that paint a more complete picture?
I did not set out to write so much. Would love any feedback or recommendations, please do not feel obligated to respond to every question! Thanks to everyone for all your research and the huge pool of information I have drawn from!
TLDR: PM and WP are having some effects after only a week, can I take more? Am I making the right choice in discontinuing licorice and pygeum? Anything I can add that doesn't interfere and will be cheap?