Hi everyone! First off, I've been really enjoying exploring Breast Nexum the last few weeks - such a deep resource - finally made an account.
Its heartbreaking how google search buries it, I wish I found this right at the start of my explorations.
I've learned a ton ontop of my other research - and also gotten more confused as well!
So I figured this would be the best way to tailor a strategy for myself, if you're willing to help.
Since this forum, while an amazing resource, isn't all that easily search-able by specific question, I hope that the answers in this thread will help answer a lot of common specific questions for people in one place, and of course be especially be useful for people in situations like mine.
Its an in-depth read, thanks in advance for your patience. Maybe I'll slim it down over time but I get the sense it'll probably all be useful to someone somehow.
Context:
I'm in my early 30's, biologically male, and recently accepted I'm non-binary after a lifetime of burying it/flirting with the notion quietly.
I put out a song a few years ago that talks about it a bit, from the POV of when I was 12 first starting to notice it.
Its been really freeing and good for me both personally and professionally in various ways to be open about it....
But since coming out as NB on socials a few months ago (and questioning if I'm trans), and starting to perform shows in 'soft drag', play pride fests, etc - its also made the dysphoria super shouty inside me.
I can usually keep it at bay if I'm doing something every day to get closer to deciding if I want to go full HRT to female or not...
Aka, is the grass actually greener on that side for me, or am I happiest on the fence or being able to hop between both binaries, at least socially?
So the last couple months I've been trying and refining a personal plan with the data I can muster and the things I can afford.
But I think I'm finally knowledgeable enough and trying things out enough that I should get y'all involved -
or it really could get devastating for my health, especially since there's so much contrary info out there about what to do, what is too far, what is not far enough - and since I've started some heavier stuff. Infuriating how many sites have listicles about hormone-affecting foods & herbs that contradict themselves as they're written for a certain gender and not the other - but nothing in each post to clarify that. Journalism at its finest. Anyways.
Simply put, at this time, I'd love to get as close as I can to 'passing' as cis female without HRT or feminizing surgery, and hopefully without severe fertility issues, while understanding it will affect my sperm count somewhat. And then from there, if I know thats not enough for me, I can decide if I want to go full HRT or stay in a blissful in-between.
While I'm also doing all sorts of things in terms of skincare, makeup & clothes...
In the realm of physical changes from herbs/food, exercise & breast routine my main missions are:
- Slower/thinner facial hair growth & reversing male-pattern baldness (So I'm certainly emphasizing DHT blocking)
- Have healthier, more elastic skin & female-style breasts (even filling a B cup without breast tape/padding)
- Less belly fat, and hopefully some fat transfer to hips, even if miniscule.
(I weigh about 143 rn and am 5'6, so I'm hardly overweight, but would love to lose the belly fat - was steadily losing some weight with what I've been doing, but its not really going below 143)
Keeping In Mind That...
I also really value my productivity, and need to make sure I'm able to balance a hectic life with getting results -
AKA, not oversleeping and staying up too late, which I have sometimes the last few months due to some of my herbs & teas I suspect
I tend to find when I take things that directly reduce T or perhaps impact my liver, my sleep is especially effected.
But I also haven't done this scientifically enough to know if it may be an interaction between a couple things I'm taking that is creating the extra sleep.
ALSO - Keep in mind I'm a musician & generally in the arts - there's been times I've made a great living - other times not so much.
And now is one of those times, just as I need to keep the dysphoria at bay - which can get expensive no matter how strategic you are.
So I'm trying to do all my skincare/health/feminizing as cheaply and cleverly as I can.
Its not to say there's always shortcuts, but I really believe sometimes there are, and like anything, there can be capitalist fear-mongering to only get the most expensive stuff, which may only have a placebo difference, especially in these rather uncharted waters we're all self-inflicted guinea pigs/front-line soldiers in.
A few weeks ago, I had a blood test - and while I don't remember the terms they use for measuring, my E was around 90, and my T around 27. Both within safe male ranges still I was assured, but I suspect pushing outwards into higher E and lower T. I also had a slightly elevated risk of prostate cancer, but I had a test and I don't have it.
I'm going to get another blood test in about a month or maybe sooner - I can schedule it as I'd like.
I've never had any major allergies or allergic reactions.
So, my current routine:
(Curious about optimal order, dose-ages, and steps to remove based on my priorities)
I largely fast, starting at 11:30 PM the night before, and then try not to have calories until 3 PM-ish the next day.
So a 15-16 hour fast.
Then:
Morning:
Up around 11 AM ideally, but its been unfortunately closer to 1 or 2 lately due to extra sleep from the herbs, which I really need to rectify.
I'm in the arts, so lots of late nights, but I feel off when I'm up that late each day, and it compounds.
Cup of rosehip tea or pinch of looseleaf green tea whilst initial work... or white tea/coffee if I must - if tea, usually with a bit of blue butterfly pea protein in it too (it helps to reduce belly fat according to some sources, retain moisture, reduce inflammation).
Afternoon:
Around 3 PM:
- Few sips of apple cider vinegar dilluted in water (for setting gut cultures for optimal functioning). Like, its an 8 oz cup with maybe 5-10 ml of ACV, and it takes me the week to get through it. Maybe I should have a cup like that each day or every other day? That's more in doctor suggested ranges.
- Taken sublingually, Pinch of cayenne pepper & crushed black pepper (So I burn more fat when I excercise & get more bioavailibility from food, also amplified by the fasting) .... I've been doing a curcumin/piperine blend pill for this instead with about 600 mg curcumin and 5 mg biopiperine, but seems there's mixed data on the effect of curcumin in large amounts it may increase T instead, so I was gonna pause. Maybe that's not an issue in my case, idk, you'll see what I mean....
- Exercise (A few sit ups with a waist trainer on, planks, an exercise for stretching chest muscles to aid in breast size, jumping jacks, ideally rowing machine)
Doing this a bit later in the day allegedly means my T & DHT is past its peak for the day anyways, hopefully making it easier for the pills to do their thang.
T/DHT Phase (seconds after):
- Green Tea Extract 1.8 g x2 (As suggested on this forum, 1% caffeine, 50% ECG, 80% catchechins... which is a type of polyphenol, so I assume that reaches the criteria...? Doing this to reduce testosterone production? It also doesn't make me tired, so thats good!)
- L-Lysine 1000 mg (allegedly to better metabolize DHT blockers)
- Finasteride 1.25 mg approx (I have a prescription for hair loss and have started over the last couple years to experience male pattern hair loss, comes in 5 mg pills that I have a cutter for). On it for about 8 months now.
- Extra DHT blockers right after?
........... I also have extra choices of DHT blockers I can do here in addition which I usually do; but I can't quite decide if the extra ones help or actually interfere with the finasteride, much like how PM can interfere with Estrogen pills, and the data and personal tests I've done seems to be inconclusive if this shouldn't be done at all, or shouldn't be done so close to finasteride use. For example, sometimes I try a 2G Red Reishi capsule here or 1G of powder, or a 1.5G Saw Palmetto/5G biotin supplement I can do to compliment it. But I hear Saw also increases T. Or Licorice root powder 1G or a 450MG capsule. Finding I'm not having adverse reactions to any of these despite the seemingly large doses, just following the packaging and not exceeding - I only ever seem to have issue with LR if I go above 2G a day consistently. I've also tried holding off on those DHT blockers until later in the day.
Meal/Priming For E Phase (Seconds After):
- Maybe Boron pill? It generally helps with absorption of both T & E, plenty of it in beetroot which is why I have beetroot powder later.
- Calcium & Vitamin D heavy drink cup (Oat and/or soy milk, greek yoghurt, kefir for gut, 5-10G of collagen protein powder, sprinkle of poppy seeds)
- Vitamin D pill & potentially biotin pill if I didn't do the biotin/saw blend.
- A pinch more sublingual black pepper/curcumin maybe?
- Second cup of of tea to help increase body temp & start to introduce E. Blue Butterfly, pinch of fennel, sometimes goats rue. I'll have it during the full meal.
- Full meal, trying to lean on fattier & femme side - I've been vegetarian (if eggs still count) since my early 20's. 1-2 hardboiled eggs, flax/cinnamon/poppyseed/prebiotic fiber blend, spurlina protein powder/beetroot powder blend, uncooked kale/spinach, red pepper ideally (hear its best for E), piece of toast with butter & peanut butter. After that has had a bit of time to digest, a small handful of almonds and dried blueberries/apricots
E Phase (How long should I wait before I start this phase in the day?)
- Bioidentical E cream (It's a brand on Amazon in Canada, Vigority... I'm confused whether its actually a progesterone cream or not as it showed up in progresterone amazon searches, and also still can't find clear answers on progesterone with breast growth. I rub a tiny amount into my wrists or where I have thinner skin/protruding veins on my body. It provides relief, for sure - it includes things like shea butter, PM root, isoflavones, green tea leaf extract, red clover extract, panax ginseng root extract)
- Pueraria Mirifica x2 ... (Not Ainterol, an Ebay India brand, 1G each per capsule. Keep in mind the extract ratio & quality of the PM you're having decides a lot about how much is too much or too little. Ainterol is allegedly primo, hence the smaller doses - I'm following instructions on the packaging. One of them was 10:1 extract, so 10G turned into 1G I believe, and I ran out of those, and was fine on it. Had the strongest reaction from pure PM root powder, but also a bit anxious about PM in general because of how hard it is on the liver)
- White Peony pill, 500 mg (Just had this for two days so far)
- Maybe an evening primrose or I may save this for later... (I definitely feel swelling from it, 500 mg)
- Vyvanse 30 mg (ADHD medication, no real side effects unless I have alcohol, which I rarely do). I also know that if I can have it earlier in the day that helps with sleep, but you're also not supposed to have it on an empty stomach. I can at least have it a bit earlier.
...(Should I also wait here?)...
- Bovine Ovary 250 mg Swanson
.... Ok, so this warrants explanation. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this, and have only been on it a week. So far I think its really working for breasts. I felt a slight pulse in my 'third eye' the first day I took it, then I never did afterward, but I tend to 'think a bit more feminine', if I can ever even know what that means so far. I also definitely feel my breasts responding to it each day, little moments of swelling at random intervals, usually when my body isn't digesting something is when I tend to feel it. I also know that some people have had lots of libido and other issues from it, but that seems to have happened with much larger finasteride doses and at older ages. I'm on the lowest dose I can get... and I'll stop within a month unless you all unanimously tell me otherwise. I just got excited reading about it, and thought carefully before starting it about if having a child was a 100% must-have for me - and its not. I also read something about it being unnecessary to be on herbs if you're on BO, but I can't seem to find that thread anymore...
My theory with putting BO here is that my T is at its lowest, my E at its highest, and I'm still giving the BO plenty of fats to work with -
If its true that BO via aromatization creates a new baseline in your body of what it thinks your T & E levels should be, then that should be the smartest time to have it, yeah? Unless having that meal is undoing the hard work of the other stuff, except maybe the finasteride....
- After that, I might chew on some Goats Rue, suck it dry, try not to swallow it. Its supposedly good for prolactin. Its also a phytoestrogen so sometimes I may have it before the BO. I also fear I have too many things going on, so I am doing this less and less. I only really felt it the first time I used it, then my body seemed to figure out how to stop me from really feeling its effects. Jerk!
Evening:
Second & Last Meal:
- I'll still lean on the fattier veg side, and can at times feel the BO respond to that. ...Or maybe its just reacting to my humidifier... cold winters, try to run it often. BTW - These days I also am wearing silk/satin as much as possible cos its amazing for keeping moisture retained on me, and seriously makes my skin silky smooth (along with evening primrose oil). Plus a mulberry silk pillowcase & hair cap (you can get them dirt cheap on Temu or AliExpress).
- Meal tends to consist of something stir-fry & a legume. More kale, Adzuki beans rock, red lentils. Avocado.
Leaning more towards sesame seed & coconut oil and the soy end lately - but I also wonder if thats actually competing with the BO & PM in a negative way. I try to have tempeh pretty regularly - Fast & healthy & high in K2 to keep the body young in case I don't metabolize it from the K1 in the leafy greens. There is also occasional snacking - peach, apple, that flax blend from before, maybe a touch of dark chocolate and/or popcorn. Tiny smidge of ice cream. Despite leaning fattier, I don't seem to gain weight as long as I have plenty of flax, blue butterfly (I get it from Aliexpress btw) & fennel.
Wind-Down:
- I have about 2 cups worth of spearmint tea since its sedative, blended with fennel, blue butterfly, sometimes chamomile/lavender
- Sometimes here, between my morning & late evening minoxidil I'll try a rosehip oil/lavender/spearmint essential oil blend on my scalp for extra DHT/T blocking for hair growth. I assume this doesn't affect the whole body, but maybe I'm wrong.
- I'll have an evening primrose capsule or two during the night when I want to feel some temporary breast swelling
- 1 Licorice root (450 mg)
- Pinch more estrogen cream (perhaps on the shaft if I'm feeling bold, but this does seem to reduce sexual desire for me, which paradoxically, excites me at times)
- After applying a lukewarm rag to the breasts or maybe having a full shower, I'll use a micronized PM breast serum I got cheap on Ebay (because they had it set for auction not a buy now price). I also have a StHerbs PM extract I can use on the skin instead... I seem to prefer the micronized serum.
- I'll then add a lanolin cream to the breast that has a bit of evening primrose in it for extra swelling, to help the PM and moisture remain...
- Then just recently I've tried a pinch of Neutrogena Hydroboost with Hyaluronic acid just to really seal it in. I think its helping plump & seal, much like it does on my face.
- Then, breast massage #1. Should it be the chi massage, or can I use an electric breast massager/bra I got on Temu? I'm more concerned about absorption and blood going to the breasts, which either seems to do for me, and I'm overwhelmed just writing all this, and simplicity is attractive at night from the massager.
- Lastly, I just got a breast enlarger on Temu for 38 CAD on sale that seems inspired by the Noogleberry. Just used it once so far as I just got it today, and was blown away. I can return it for a full refund I really do decide to just go full Noogleberry, but I'm not convinced it would be better. I'm getting great suction even at a mild setting on it, and I can shut it off and have it retain its suction quite well still. Of course, it doesn't have a gauge, but I can put it on a setting for myself that feels about mild. Intense seems too intense.
- I think what I'd like to do is do the breast cream regimen, breast massage®, one round of the breast enlarger (maybe with a bit of water in the cups), not sure which method is best yet for me yet. Then rinse and repeat once.
- The second time around, I could potentially instead of the PM use a blue butterfly/hops serum blend I created, plus a bit of the e cream. But hops seems to get really amplified by the spearmint. Spearmint in general is known to amplify other sedative things you might have so I need to be careful of those.
....
I'm overwhelmed by all the steps and the infinite combinations of things I could do to try to maximize all this.
It took me HOURS just to write this out! This is the most detailed explanation I've ever written about it, but it says something that I have to even write the steps out in a google doc for myself just to keep ontop of them, and use a 7-day pill container to put my main pills in order.
I would love to know what to cut out, what to put in, what to rearrange based on my goals stated above.
For example, and I think these are probably the lynchpins that will make the others fall into place (or fall out alltogether) - when to have the finasteride and the BO in the chain for maximum results.
And some theories: Since I'm doing BO maybe instead I should do all kinds of stuff to increase T (Ashawaganda, etc) since the brain will just interpret that as excess and aromatize it into E? Or better yet, maybe I should focus on stuff that increases Prolactin, since prolactin and T also seem to increase at the same time, and then the T would get aromatized and the Prolactin would help breast size? Maybe Milk Thistle for prolactin and to help counteract liver harm from PM/Licorice root/most of these things? More goats rue, less goats rue? Or progesterone?
Ppl also say MSM & D3 & Calcium together, but I don’t see why the MSM from my researching.
....
PS. I'm avoiding fenugreek, red clover and valerian root if possible, as I don't seem to react well to them.
Not that I vomit or am allergic, but they seem to get me bloaty & in some cases constipated.
Fenugreek I could maybe do on the breasts and be ok with, idk.
.....
Thank you so much if you made it this far - and again, I really hope this proves valuable for others.
Many many thanks in advance for your replies.
T.
Its heartbreaking how google search buries it, I wish I found this right at the start of my explorations.
I've learned a ton ontop of my other research - and also gotten more confused as well!
So I figured this would be the best way to tailor a strategy for myself, if you're willing to help.
Since this forum, while an amazing resource, isn't all that easily search-able by specific question, I hope that the answers in this thread will help answer a lot of common specific questions for people in one place, and of course be especially be useful for people in situations like mine.
Its an in-depth read, thanks in advance for your patience. Maybe I'll slim it down over time but I get the sense it'll probably all be useful to someone somehow.
Context:
I'm in my early 30's, biologically male, and recently accepted I'm non-binary after a lifetime of burying it/flirting with the notion quietly.
I put out a song a few years ago that talks about it a bit, from the POV of when I was 12 first starting to notice it.
Its been really freeing and good for me both personally and professionally in various ways to be open about it....
But since coming out as NB on socials a few months ago (and questioning if I'm trans), and starting to perform shows in 'soft drag', play pride fests, etc - its also made the dysphoria super shouty inside me.
I can usually keep it at bay if I'm doing something every day to get closer to deciding if I want to go full HRT to female or not...
Aka, is the grass actually greener on that side for me, or am I happiest on the fence or being able to hop between both binaries, at least socially?
So the last couple months I've been trying and refining a personal plan with the data I can muster and the things I can afford.
But I think I'm finally knowledgeable enough and trying things out enough that I should get y'all involved -
or it really could get devastating for my health, especially since there's so much contrary info out there about what to do, what is too far, what is not far enough - and since I've started some heavier stuff. Infuriating how many sites have listicles about hormone-affecting foods & herbs that contradict themselves as they're written for a certain gender and not the other - but nothing in each post to clarify that. Journalism at its finest. Anyways.
Simply put, at this time, I'd love to get as close as I can to 'passing' as cis female without HRT or feminizing surgery, and hopefully without severe fertility issues, while understanding it will affect my sperm count somewhat. And then from there, if I know thats not enough for me, I can decide if I want to go full HRT or stay in a blissful in-between.
While I'm also doing all sorts of things in terms of skincare, makeup & clothes...
In the realm of physical changes from herbs/food, exercise & breast routine my main missions are:
- Slower/thinner facial hair growth & reversing male-pattern baldness (So I'm certainly emphasizing DHT blocking)
- Have healthier, more elastic skin & female-style breasts (even filling a B cup without breast tape/padding)
- Less belly fat, and hopefully some fat transfer to hips, even if miniscule.
(I weigh about 143 rn and am 5'6, so I'm hardly overweight, but would love to lose the belly fat - was steadily losing some weight with what I've been doing, but its not really going below 143)
Keeping In Mind That...
I also really value my productivity, and need to make sure I'm able to balance a hectic life with getting results -
AKA, not oversleeping and staying up too late, which I have sometimes the last few months due to some of my herbs & teas I suspect
I tend to find when I take things that directly reduce T or perhaps impact my liver, my sleep is especially effected.
But I also haven't done this scientifically enough to know if it may be an interaction between a couple things I'm taking that is creating the extra sleep.
ALSO - Keep in mind I'm a musician & generally in the arts - there's been times I've made a great living - other times not so much.
And now is one of those times, just as I need to keep the dysphoria at bay - which can get expensive no matter how strategic you are.
So I'm trying to do all my skincare/health/feminizing as cheaply and cleverly as I can.
Its not to say there's always shortcuts, but I really believe sometimes there are, and like anything, there can be capitalist fear-mongering to only get the most expensive stuff, which may only have a placebo difference, especially in these rather uncharted waters we're all self-inflicted guinea pigs/front-line soldiers in.
A few weeks ago, I had a blood test - and while I don't remember the terms they use for measuring, my E was around 90, and my T around 27. Both within safe male ranges still I was assured, but I suspect pushing outwards into higher E and lower T. I also had a slightly elevated risk of prostate cancer, but I had a test and I don't have it.
I'm going to get another blood test in about a month or maybe sooner - I can schedule it as I'd like.
I've never had any major allergies or allergic reactions.
So, my current routine:
(Curious about optimal order, dose-ages, and steps to remove based on my priorities)
I largely fast, starting at 11:30 PM the night before, and then try not to have calories until 3 PM-ish the next day.
So a 15-16 hour fast.
Then:
Morning:
Up around 11 AM ideally, but its been unfortunately closer to 1 or 2 lately due to extra sleep from the herbs, which I really need to rectify.
I'm in the arts, so lots of late nights, but I feel off when I'm up that late each day, and it compounds.
Cup of rosehip tea or pinch of looseleaf green tea whilst initial work... or white tea/coffee if I must - if tea, usually with a bit of blue butterfly pea protein in it too (it helps to reduce belly fat according to some sources, retain moisture, reduce inflammation).
Afternoon:
Around 3 PM:
- Few sips of apple cider vinegar dilluted in water (for setting gut cultures for optimal functioning). Like, its an 8 oz cup with maybe 5-10 ml of ACV, and it takes me the week to get through it. Maybe I should have a cup like that each day or every other day? That's more in doctor suggested ranges.
- Taken sublingually, Pinch of cayenne pepper & crushed black pepper (So I burn more fat when I excercise & get more bioavailibility from food, also amplified by the fasting) .... I've been doing a curcumin/piperine blend pill for this instead with about 600 mg curcumin and 5 mg biopiperine, but seems there's mixed data on the effect of curcumin in large amounts it may increase T instead, so I was gonna pause. Maybe that's not an issue in my case, idk, you'll see what I mean....
- Exercise (A few sit ups with a waist trainer on, planks, an exercise for stretching chest muscles to aid in breast size, jumping jacks, ideally rowing machine)
Doing this a bit later in the day allegedly means my T & DHT is past its peak for the day anyways, hopefully making it easier for the pills to do their thang.
T/DHT Phase (seconds after):
- Green Tea Extract 1.8 g x2 (As suggested on this forum, 1% caffeine, 50% ECG, 80% catchechins... which is a type of polyphenol, so I assume that reaches the criteria...? Doing this to reduce testosterone production? It also doesn't make me tired, so thats good!)
- L-Lysine 1000 mg (allegedly to better metabolize DHT blockers)
- Finasteride 1.25 mg approx (I have a prescription for hair loss and have started over the last couple years to experience male pattern hair loss, comes in 5 mg pills that I have a cutter for). On it for about 8 months now.
- Extra DHT blockers right after?
........... I also have extra choices of DHT blockers I can do here in addition which I usually do; but I can't quite decide if the extra ones help or actually interfere with the finasteride, much like how PM can interfere with Estrogen pills, and the data and personal tests I've done seems to be inconclusive if this shouldn't be done at all, or shouldn't be done so close to finasteride use. For example, sometimes I try a 2G Red Reishi capsule here or 1G of powder, or a 1.5G Saw Palmetto/5G biotin supplement I can do to compliment it. But I hear Saw also increases T. Or Licorice root powder 1G or a 450MG capsule. Finding I'm not having adverse reactions to any of these despite the seemingly large doses, just following the packaging and not exceeding - I only ever seem to have issue with LR if I go above 2G a day consistently. I've also tried holding off on those DHT blockers until later in the day.
Meal/Priming For E Phase (Seconds After):
- Maybe Boron pill? It generally helps with absorption of both T & E, plenty of it in beetroot which is why I have beetroot powder later.
- Calcium & Vitamin D heavy drink cup (Oat and/or soy milk, greek yoghurt, kefir for gut, 5-10G of collagen protein powder, sprinkle of poppy seeds)
- Vitamin D pill & potentially biotin pill if I didn't do the biotin/saw blend.
- A pinch more sublingual black pepper/curcumin maybe?
- Second cup of of tea to help increase body temp & start to introduce E. Blue Butterfly, pinch of fennel, sometimes goats rue. I'll have it during the full meal.
- Full meal, trying to lean on fattier & femme side - I've been vegetarian (if eggs still count) since my early 20's. 1-2 hardboiled eggs, flax/cinnamon/poppyseed/prebiotic fiber blend, spurlina protein powder/beetroot powder blend, uncooked kale/spinach, red pepper ideally (hear its best for E), piece of toast with butter & peanut butter. After that has had a bit of time to digest, a small handful of almonds and dried blueberries/apricots
E Phase (How long should I wait before I start this phase in the day?)
- Bioidentical E cream (It's a brand on Amazon in Canada, Vigority... I'm confused whether its actually a progesterone cream or not as it showed up in progresterone amazon searches, and also still can't find clear answers on progesterone with breast growth. I rub a tiny amount into my wrists or where I have thinner skin/protruding veins on my body. It provides relief, for sure - it includes things like shea butter, PM root, isoflavones, green tea leaf extract, red clover extract, panax ginseng root extract)
- Pueraria Mirifica x2 ... (Not Ainterol, an Ebay India brand, 1G each per capsule. Keep in mind the extract ratio & quality of the PM you're having decides a lot about how much is too much or too little. Ainterol is allegedly primo, hence the smaller doses - I'm following instructions on the packaging. One of them was 10:1 extract, so 10G turned into 1G I believe, and I ran out of those, and was fine on it. Had the strongest reaction from pure PM root powder, but also a bit anxious about PM in general because of how hard it is on the liver)
- White Peony pill, 500 mg (Just had this for two days so far)
- Maybe an evening primrose or I may save this for later... (I definitely feel swelling from it, 500 mg)
- Vyvanse 30 mg (ADHD medication, no real side effects unless I have alcohol, which I rarely do). I also know that if I can have it earlier in the day that helps with sleep, but you're also not supposed to have it on an empty stomach. I can at least have it a bit earlier.
...(Should I also wait here?)...
- Bovine Ovary 250 mg Swanson
.... Ok, so this warrants explanation. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this, and have only been on it a week. So far I think its really working for breasts. I felt a slight pulse in my 'third eye' the first day I took it, then I never did afterward, but I tend to 'think a bit more feminine', if I can ever even know what that means so far. I also definitely feel my breasts responding to it each day, little moments of swelling at random intervals, usually when my body isn't digesting something is when I tend to feel it. I also know that some people have had lots of libido and other issues from it, but that seems to have happened with much larger finasteride doses and at older ages. I'm on the lowest dose I can get... and I'll stop within a month unless you all unanimously tell me otherwise. I just got excited reading about it, and thought carefully before starting it about if having a child was a 100% must-have for me - and its not. I also read something about it being unnecessary to be on herbs if you're on BO, but I can't seem to find that thread anymore...
My theory with putting BO here is that my T is at its lowest, my E at its highest, and I'm still giving the BO plenty of fats to work with -
If its true that BO via aromatization creates a new baseline in your body of what it thinks your T & E levels should be, then that should be the smartest time to have it, yeah? Unless having that meal is undoing the hard work of the other stuff, except maybe the finasteride....
- After that, I might chew on some Goats Rue, suck it dry, try not to swallow it. Its supposedly good for prolactin. Its also a phytoestrogen so sometimes I may have it before the BO. I also fear I have too many things going on, so I am doing this less and less. I only really felt it the first time I used it, then my body seemed to figure out how to stop me from really feeling its effects. Jerk!
Evening:
Second & Last Meal:
- I'll still lean on the fattier veg side, and can at times feel the BO respond to that. ...Or maybe its just reacting to my humidifier... cold winters, try to run it often. BTW - These days I also am wearing silk/satin as much as possible cos its amazing for keeping moisture retained on me, and seriously makes my skin silky smooth (along with evening primrose oil). Plus a mulberry silk pillowcase & hair cap (you can get them dirt cheap on Temu or AliExpress).
- Meal tends to consist of something stir-fry & a legume. More kale, Adzuki beans rock, red lentils. Avocado.
Leaning more towards sesame seed & coconut oil and the soy end lately - but I also wonder if thats actually competing with the BO & PM in a negative way. I try to have tempeh pretty regularly - Fast & healthy & high in K2 to keep the body young in case I don't metabolize it from the K1 in the leafy greens. There is also occasional snacking - peach, apple, that flax blend from before, maybe a touch of dark chocolate and/or popcorn. Tiny smidge of ice cream. Despite leaning fattier, I don't seem to gain weight as long as I have plenty of flax, blue butterfly (I get it from Aliexpress btw) & fennel.
Wind-Down:
- I have about 2 cups worth of spearmint tea since its sedative, blended with fennel, blue butterfly, sometimes chamomile/lavender
- Sometimes here, between my morning & late evening minoxidil I'll try a rosehip oil/lavender/spearmint essential oil blend on my scalp for extra DHT/T blocking for hair growth. I assume this doesn't affect the whole body, but maybe I'm wrong.
- I'll have an evening primrose capsule or two during the night when I want to feel some temporary breast swelling
- 1 Licorice root (450 mg)
- Pinch more estrogen cream (perhaps on the shaft if I'm feeling bold, but this does seem to reduce sexual desire for me, which paradoxically, excites me at times)
- After applying a lukewarm rag to the breasts or maybe having a full shower, I'll use a micronized PM breast serum I got cheap on Ebay (because they had it set for auction not a buy now price). I also have a StHerbs PM extract I can use on the skin instead... I seem to prefer the micronized serum.
- I'll then add a lanolin cream to the breast that has a bit of evening primrose in it for extra swelling, to help the PM and moisture remain...
- Then just recently I've tried a pinch of Neutrogena Hydroboost with Hyaluronic acid just to really seal it in. I think its helping plump & seal, much like it does on my face.
- Then, breast massage #1. Should it be the chi massage, or can I use an electric breast massager/bra I got on Temu? I'm more concerned about absorption and blood going to the breasts, which either seems to do for me, and I'm overwhelmed just writing all this, and simplicity is attractive at night from the massager.
- Lastly, I just got a breast enlarger on Temu for 38 CAD on sale that seems inspired by the Noogleberry. Just used it once so far as I just got it today, and was blown away. I can return it for a full refund I really do decide to just go full Noogleberry, but I'm not convinced it would be better. I'm getting great suction even at a mild setting on it, and I can shut it off and have it retain its suction quite well still. Of course, it doesn't have a gauge, but I can put it on a setting for myself that feels about mild. Intense seems too intense.
- I think what I'd like to do is do the breast cream regimen, breast massage®, one round of the breast enlarger (maybe with a bit of water in the cups), not sure which method is best yet for me yet. Then rinse and repeat once.
- The second time around, I could potentially instead of the PM use a blue butterfly/hops serum blend I created, plus a bit of the e cream. But hops seems to get really amplified by the spearmint. Spearmint in general is known to amplify other sedative things you might have so I need to be careful of those.
....
I'm overwhelmed by all the steps and the infinite combinations of things I could do to try to maximize all this.
It took me HOURS just to write this out! This is the most detailed explanation I've ever written about it, but it says something that I have to even write the steps out in a google doc for myself just to keep ontop of them, and use a 7-day pill container to put my main pills in order.
I would love to know what to cut out, what to put in, what to rearrange based on my goals stated above.
For example, and I think these are probably the lynchpins that will make the others fall into place (or fall out alltogether) - when to have the finasteride and the BO in the chain for maximum results.
And some theories: Since I'm doing BO maybe instead I should do all kinds of stuff to increase T (Ashawaganda, etc) since the brain will just interpret that as excess and aromatize it into E? Or better yet, maybe I should focus on stuff that increases Prolactin, since prolactin and T also seem to increase at the same time, and then the T would get aromatized and the Prolactin would help breast size? Maybe Milk Thistle for prolactin and to help counteract liver harm from PM/Licorice root/most of these things? More goats rue, less goats rue? Or progesterone?
Ppl also say MSM & D3 & Calcium together, but I don’t see why the MSM from my researching.
....
PS. I'm avoiding fenugreek, red clover and valerian root if possible, as I don't seem to react well to them.
Not that I vomit or am allergic, but they seem to get me bloaty & in some cases constipated.
Fenugreek I could maybe do on the breasts and be ok with, idk.
.....
Thank you so much if you made it this far - and again, I really hope this proves valuable for others.
Many many thanks in advance for your replies.
T.
Oh wow, that's a whole lot to digest... I skimmed through just quickly. Welcome to the forum. This stuff is so niche its really hard to find on shitty search engines that don't do their job properly. What I think is great is that we're a tiny quiet corner of the internet and most people are quite dedicated and really awesome here, there's no need to attract more creeps and trolls who have come and gone from time to time. Its really lovely, peaceful and no drama and great resource for information.
Quickly on prolactin boosting herbs, milk thistle seems really awesome, its one of the best for me at least. Goats rue is obvious one, I think its likely the best of them, but prices are insane. Blessed thistle seems ok too, but its not super effective on its own. For me GABA has been one of the best things ever, boosting both prolactin and growth hormone, cheap and easy to source too. Don't overlook a simple oatmeal either, that stuff is potent for prolactin and its so good for digestion and tastes awesome. I have it 2-3 times every day, no regrets.
Congrats on figuring yourself out, its quite a ride no matter where you end up to. ^_^
Quickly on prolactin boosting herbs, milk thistle seems really awesome, its one of the best for me at least. Goats rue is obvious one, I think its likely the best of them, but prices are insane. Blessed thistle seems ok too, but its not super effective on its own. For me GABA has been one of the best things ever, boosting both prolactin and growth hormone, cheap and easy to source too. Don't overlook a simple oatmeal either, that stuff is potent for prolactin and its so good for digestion and tastes awesome. I have it 2-3 times every day, no regrets.
Congrats on figuring yourself out, its quite a ride no matter where you end up to. ^_^
Welcome to the Forim Teyqueen,
Lots of information on your write-up, but it makes sense and not too complicated on the face of it.
I did notice that you are taking both PM and BO, which may cause DVT issues, so please keep an eye on that. With a very low dose of one of the two may not be an issue.
I can only speak to BO,as that is what I chose to try and liked the way it worked and feels.
BO works best at a body temp of 98.2 and 98.8. As body temp fluctuates through the day, lowest in the AM and higher in the PM, it was recommended to me to take in the late afternoon and evening, an hour before or 2 hours after dinner or before bed, E production is also more productive during sleep, at least that's what I have been told.
I also included my regular multi vitamin routine, a multi vitamin, calcium citrate, B12 and osteoflex and added the recommended L-Tyrosine, D3-K2, selenium and iodine, the last twoto help regulatebody temperature. I also have a teaspoon of honey.
It was also recommended to keep a high protein intake with lots of amino acids, so I take my BO with a high protein shake.
It's a pretty simple program and I do have softer skin, low libido and grown 3 to 4 inches in my cup size, with more feminine breasts and what is taking on an hourglass shape.I too want to get rid of my belly fat but losing weight on BO is a struggle.
Good luck on your program, remember it's a marathon not a sprint.
Lots of information on your write-up, but it makes sense and not too complicated on the face of it.
I did notice that you are taking both PM and BO, which may cause DVT issues, so please keep an eye on that. With a very low dose of one of the two may not be an issue.
I can only speak to BO,as that is what I chose to try and liked the way it worked and feels.
BO works best at a body temp of 98.2 and 98.8. As body temp fluctuates through the day, lowest in the AM and higher in the PM, it was recommended to me to take in the late afternoon and evening, an hour before or 2 hours after dinner or before bed, E production is also more productive during sleep, at least that's what I have been told.
I also included my regular multi vitamin routine, a multi vitamin, calcium citrate, B12 and osteoflex and added the recommended L-Tyrosine, D3-K2, selenium and iodine, the last twoto help regulatebody temperature. I also have a teaspoon of honey.
It was also recommended to keep a high protein intake with lots of amino acids, so I take my BO with a high protein shake.
It's a pretty simple program and I do have softer skin, low libido and grown 3 to 4 inches in my cup size, with more feminine breasts and what is taking on an hourglass shape.I too want to get rid of my belly fat but losing weight on BO is a struggle.
Good luck on your program, remember it's a marathon not a sprint.
(03-12-2023, 03:36 PM)tomi66 Wrote: Welcome to the Forim Teyqueen,
Lots of information on your write-up, but it makes sense and not too complicated on the face of it.
I also included my regular multi vitamin routine, a multi vitamin, calcium citrate, B12 and osteoflex and added the recommended L-Tyrosine, D3-K2, selenium and iodine, the last twoto help regulatebody temperature. I also have a teaspoon of honey.
It was also recommended to keep a high protein intake with lots of amino acids, so I take my BO with a high protein shake.
It's a pretty simple program and I do have softer skin, low libido and grown 3 to 4 inches in my cup size, with more feminine breasts and what is taking on an hourglass shape.I too want to get rid of my belly fat but losing weight on BO is a struggle.
Thats amazing progress, congrats, and thanks for the reply! Curious about why L-Tyrosine? I guess D & K2 because we don't naturally make K2 and D3 & Calcium help us better make use of estrogen in our body? If I had to choose between selenium & iodine which one should I? I don't have issue getting 98.2-6 farenheit, but will those help body temp hover around that range for longer, is that the idea? I tend to be just below it, or when I drink tea, just above it, and then notice I feel breast tingling (growth) when I cool down a little bit, presumably as it enters that threshold - would be nice to be in that threshold as long as possible.
And why does the honey help?
Also, curious if turmeric would be a bad idea? I have turmeric/piperine pills, which increase temp a little bit, but also some studies point to turmeric helping us to increase & regulate T levels... maybe with BO in the picture that extra T would turn to E? IDK. But Piperine really increases bioavailibility from food, and Turmeric helps in all kinds of ways with neuro-connectivity, inflammation and more.
L-tyrosine is one of the things that have been mentioned when I was figuring out what to do to help nipple development. It elevates HGH levels which is something we definitely want, it gives a nice boost in alertness and energy levels when taken in the morning. I've been doing it for quite a while on moderate dose, 500-1000mg in the morning and haven't regretted it. I'm not sure if it did anything to my nipples though, but its been beneficial.
I think combined with GABA, its great for HGH boost. I wake up really fast these days and I think having L-tyrosine as part of my morning routine has been helpful.
I would pick iodine. I get mine from a multivitamin, but kelp is a good option for it too, its cheap. I've been on 150mcg daily for a long time and it really does seem to help with body temperature. Helped me a lot with extremities being super cold back when I still smoked. Its soon eighteen months without smoking btw. Anyway iodine has been really good to me as I'm naturally a "shiver cat" like we would say in Finnish. Is it truly necessary for BO to work, I'm not entirely sure about, but I've taken it just in case as I know my body temp is usually 0.2 degrees too low for what is said to be optimal.
I think combined with GABA, its great for HGH boost. I wake up really fast these days and I think having L-tyrosine as part of my morning routine has been helpful.
I would pick iodine. I get mine from a multivitamin, but kelp is a good option for it too, its cheap. I've been on 150mcg daily for a long time and it really does seem to help with body temperature. Helped me a lot with extremities being super cold back when I still smoked. Its soon eighteen months without smoking btw. Anyway iodine has been really good to me as I'm naturally a "shiver cat" like we would say in Finnish. Is it truly necessary for BO to work, I'm not entirely sure about, but I've taken it just in case as I know my body temp is usually 0.2 degrees too low for what is said to be optimal.
(03-12-2023, 11:51 AM)HelloDiDi Wrote: Oh wow, that's a whole lot to digest... I skimmed through just quickly. Welcome to the forum. This stuff is so niche its really hard to find on shitty search engines that don't do their job properly. What I think is great is that we're a tiny quiet corner of the internet and most people are quite dedicated and really awesome here, there's no need to attract more creeps and trolls who have come and gone from time to time. Its really lovely, peaceful and no drama and great resource for information.
Quickly on prolactin boosting herbs, milk thistle seems really awesome, its one of the best for me at least. Goats rue is obvious one, I think its likely the best of them, but prices are insane. Blessed thistle seems ok too, but its not super effective on its own. For me GABA has been one of the best things ever, boosting both prolactin and growth hormone, cheap and easy to source too. Don't overlook a simple oatmeal either, that stuff is potent for prolactin and its so good for digestion and tastes awesome. I have it 2-3 times every day, no regrets.
Congrats on figuring yourself out, its quite a ride no matter where you end up to. ^_^
Thanks for the reply and the congrats, likewise! I've had some oatmeal tonight and will make a habit out of it again, thank you. I also have some GABA powder to try coming in a day or so. I found Goats Rue pretty cheap actually where I am, from the herbal medecine shop. 13 CAD for 1/4 pound, and I just chew on a pinch a day until its grey and spit it out, so its been lasting me many months. If you're trying online, I could see it being more expensive.
All natural supplements in Finland are extremely expensive. I usually order from iHerb, so that comes from the US, interestingly their prices are "affordable" to me, much cheaper than a lot of stuff is over here and Finland is also super strict with what is being sold. Bunch of things I have to order somewhere else.
Oats is good stuff, I made oatmeal every day at least twice and then we have some awesome oat breads too. Barley is also awesome for this, so when ever you can, eat both. Boobs love this stuff.
I have found GABA being really useful for so many things. Yours is pure powder? Mine are capsules, NOW brand from iHerb. I might be able to find it a bit cheaper even, but I've never tried powder form. The 750mg capsules are so easy to dose, powder would require a bit more effort I guess. I take MSM as pure powder btw, tastes awful, but its cheap. Its kinda silly, I get it in huge bags from a store which is marketing supplements for pets. My husky gets the very same MSM I take as he has weak legs.
Oats is good stuff, I made oatmeal every day at least twice and then we have some awesome oat breads too. Barley is also awesome for this, so when ever you can, eat both. Boobs love this stuff.
I have found GABA being really useful for so many things. Yours is pure powder? Mine are capsules, NOW brand from iHerb. I might be able to find it a bit cheaper even, but I've never tried powder form. The 750mg capsules are so easy to dose, powder would require a bit more effort I guess. I take MSM as pure powder btw, tastes awful, but its cheap. Its kinda silly, I get it in huge bags from a store which is marketing supplements for pets. My husky gets the very same MSM I take as he has weak legs.
I like iherb too! For me the shipping cost makes Amazon and aliexpress still make the most sense, unless you're buying in bulk in which case iherb is the way to go.
I have some l-tyrosine capsules from ages ago (Jim Carrey recommended it on a podcast as a good thing for thinking & mood elevation) - tried one capsule and it made me angry and stressed... I may try it one more time, since its been a few years and it could have just been reacting with something unusual I ate.
Buying in powder form tends to make more sense since its more bang for your buck, and you just need an adjustable measuring spoon, which are cheap.
Of course, better for products that are best received sublingually, or if you want to just put it in a drink to mask the taste of it. I try to have things sublingual, even in they're capsules, just to see if they tend to do better that way. I was told to not do that with certain powdered capsules though, as they oxidize once the capsule wall is broken and that degrades them. Its confusing. All I can do is guess - if I have a new thing to try, I try it sublingually one day, try it normally the other day and see what gives me a better response. Anyways.
And speaking of MSM, thats another thing I asked about in my initial post in passing - I don't understand why MSM is so essential for breasts? What does it do in this context?
It seems like it helps collagen and is an anti-inflammatory, but nothing I've found from a glance connects it with HGH or any hormones.
Oh - one last thing you may know about. I found a huge thing of evening primrose oil capsules on sale, so I bought it today so I could stock up. However, it also has 325 mg per gel capsule of linoleinc acid, and 50 mg of gamma-lineolenic acid - if I understand correctly, wouldn't those help neutralize the estrogenic effects of evening primrose?
I have some l-tyrosine capsules from ages ago (Jim Carrey recommended it on a podcast as a good thing for thinking & mood elevation) - tried one capsule and it made me angry and stressed... I may try it one more time, since its been a few years and it could have just been reacting with something unusual I ate.
Buying in powder form tends to make more sense since its more bang for your buck, and you just need an adjustable measuring spoon, which are cheap.
Of course, better for products that are best received sublingually, or if you want to just put it in a drink to mask the taste of it. I try to have things sublingual, even in they're capsules, just to see if they tend to do better that way. I was told to not do that with certain powdered capsules though, as they oxidize once the capsule wall is broken and that degrades them. Its confusing. All I can do is guess - if I have a new thing to try, I try it sublingually one day, try it normally the other day and see what gives me a better response. Anyways.
And speaking of MSM, thats another thing I asked about in my initial post in passing - I don't understand why MSM is so essential for breasts? What does it do in this context?
It seems like it helps collagen and is an anti-inflammatory, but nothing I've found from a glance connects it with HGH or any hormones.
Oh - one last thing you may know about. I found a huge thing of evening primrose oil capsules on sale, so I bought it today so I could stock up. However, it also has 325 mg per gel capsule of linoleinc acid, and 50 mg of gamma-lineolenic acid - if I understand correctly, wouldn't those help neutralize the estrogenic effects of evening primrose?
MSM mimics what growth hormone does, it helps to build connective tissues and the combo with D3 helps it to absorb better.... And it has something to do with growth factors too. I'm bad with details on this stuff, but its been very beneficial. The MSM + D3 combo was what made my herbal program really work back before HRT.
L-tyrosine, GABA etc., which are neurotransmitter boosters can definitely make mood changes which might be nasty, like being irritable, anxious and easily angry. Usually this only happens if they're taken in too high dose, but your mileage may vary like its with a lot of this stuff.
For me, moderate dose of L-tyrosine (500mg-1000mg) doesn't do any bad side effects, only makes me really alert and helps waking up in the morning, but GABA makes a mess of anxiety and panic attacks getting worse if I dose it too high. I seem to have a strict upper limit of 1500mg per day, if I go above that, after few weeks I get far worse anxiety and so on. I suffer from anxiety and panic attacks due to other reasons, but this makes it worse. 1500mg and below is just fine, no side effects. on GABA this is well known, especially for body builders who some times abuse the stuff and take idiotic high doses of it for boosting HGH.
L-tyrosine, GABA etc., which are neurotransmitter boosters can definitely make mood changes which might be nasty, like being irritable, anxious and easily angry. Usually this only happens if they're taken in too high dose, but your mileage may vary like its with a lot of this stuff.
For me, moderate dose of L-tyrosine (500mg-1000mg) doesn't do any bad side effects, only makes me really alert and helps waking up in the morning, but GABA makes a mess of anxiety and panic attacks getting worse if I dose it too high. I seem to have a strict upper limit of 1500mg per day, if I go above that, after few weeks I get far worse anxiety and so on. I suffer from anxiety and panic attacks due to other reasons, but this makes it worse. 1500mg and below is just fine, no side effects. on GABA this is well known, especially for body builders who some times abuse the stuff and take idiotic high doses of it for boosting HGH.
[unnecessary quoting removed]
Hi there! Thanks for the notes about things - I think the GABA probably makes me anxious too, I overdid it one day and didn't like what it was doing to me.
I'm keeping it under a G a day just to be safe. Update and a couple questions.
Questions:
- Do you also use a breast serum? a PM one? Any tips for that?
- When is truly the best time to take things to increase the effect of the breast development?
- And when ppl say to take things in the evening, do they mean before 12 AM, or does it have more to do with someones personal sleep cycle? For example, I fast much of the day, eat between 4 pm to 1150 pm ideally, and go to sleep a few hours after that, and end up having a dinner basically around midnight. Is that interferring with the effectiveness?
About a week now on pinch of l-tyrosene (literally just some powder from capsules that I had bought years ago, cautiously having about 100 mg...)
It certainly adds to alertness. I could probably safely buy 250 mg versions of it, but it seems to be working regardless.
Then I've got a turmeric piperine pill, L-lysine 1 G.
I've also added in K2 & D3 combo gelcap pill, then the BO, then about 2500 mg MSM & 750 mg GABA blended with whey protein powder, oatmeal, greek yoghurt and kefir.
Partly thats about efficiency not sure if its better.
And WOW. Does it ever help! I really feel it and I really notice the growth more...
Like, even when I wake up in the morning and any breast pumping/warming has worn off.
But I find I have to be careful about when I do the routine.
It seems to knock me out if I do it early evening as also suggested here, I become sluggish.
Its way better for me to do in the midst of my final meal...
But I'm going to try waiting until that final meal has had an hour or so to settle and then try this now.
I definitely seem to feel more swelling happening when its been a few hours since I've eaten so we will see what effect it has to wait on those.
When I measure my temperature, I am usually within the ballpark luckily without iodine - if I need a bit more heat, the tea gets me there.
I'm going to also see tonight if having some saw palmetto after the BO helps.
Like, since it allegedly increases T but reduces DHT, would the attempted increase in T just actually lead to aromatization to E?
I want to see if it feels like thats happening, will keep ppl posted.
T.A
Hi there! Thanks for the notes about things - I think the GABA probably makes me anxious too, I overdid it one day and didn't like what it was doing to me.
I'm keeping it under a G a day just to be safe. Update and a couple questions.
Questions:
- Do you also use a breast serum? a PM one? Any tips for that?
- When is truly the best time to take things to increase the effect of the breast development?
- And when ppl say to take things in the evening, do they mean before 12 AM, or does it have more to do with someones personal sleep cycle? For example, I fast much of the day, eat between 4 pm to 1150 pm ideally, and go to sleep a few hours after that, and end up having a dinner basically around midnight. Is that interferring with the effectiveness?
About a week now on pinch of l-tyrosene (literally just some powder from capsules that I had bought years ago, cautiously having about 100 mg...)
It certainly adds to alertness. I could probably safely buy 250 mg versions of it, but it seems to be working regardless.
Then I've got a turmeric piperine pill, L-lysine 1 G.
I've also added in K2 & D3 combo gelcap pill, then the BO, then about 2500 mg MSM & 750 mg GABA blended with whey protein powder, oatmeal, greek yoghurt and kefir.
Partly thats about efficiency not sure if its better.
And WOW. Does it ever help! I really feel it and I really notice the growth more...
Like, even when I wake up in the morning and any breast pumping/warming has worn off.
But I find I have to be careful about when I do the routine.
It seems to knock me out if I do it early evening as also suggested here, I become sluggish.
Its way better for me to do in the midst of my final meal...
But I'm going to try waiting until that final meal has had an hour or so to settle and then try this now.
I definitely seem to feel more swelling happening when its been a few hours since I've eaten so we will see what effect it has to wait on those.
When I measure my temperature, I am usually within the ballpark luckily without iodine - if I need a bit more heat, the tea gets me there.
I'm going to also see tonight if having some saw palmetto after the BO helps.
Like, since it allegedly increases T but reduces DHT, would the attempted increase in T just actually lead to aromatization to E?
I want to see if it feels like thats happening, will keep ppl posted.
T.A
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