[Leggy]

Hello Guys, Gals and Pals,

I'd like to start with a little about myself. Besides a few posts at the start of my journey I've been a lurker on these forums for over 3 years. I have learned a lot and I thank you all for that.

I am in my late thirties, male at birth and consider myself non-binary with the desired to feminise my body to align with who I am.


Before

I decided to start with NBE in March 2020, starting with Fenugreek and Saw Palmetto. After 4 months I changed to PM, later on changing Saw Palmetto for Red Reshi. I achieved moderate breast growth but I wanted more changes.


18 Months NBE

After being on NBE for 2 years and 3 months I found a Doctor with experience helping Trans people transition with gender affirming hormone therapy. She was very understanding of my desires for a slightly different treatment plan than she would normally start a Transwoman on due to me being Non-Binary. I had already done my research and knew I wanted to be on Estrogen only without an AA.

Upon doing my baseline blood test I started on Sandrena Gel, 1mg per day in June 2022. After 3 months I went to 2mg per day, then 3mg per day 3 months later. After a high result from my blood test we decided to go back to 2mg per day and at this time I stopped taking Red Reshi.

I experimented with different application locations (lower abdomen, lower back, inner thigh and scrotum) and after a bad test result I started to regularly do my 3 monthly blood test at the trough in my E2 levels (just before I would usually apply the next dose). I released that while I was getting good levels, they were dropping off too quickly and my trough levels were way too low. I was applying 1mg to inner thigh and 1mg to scrotum. The inner thigh has plenty of fat so the E2 is released slowly in small quantities but the scrotum has no fat and is extra absorbent so the E2 would release quickly in large quantities but would quickly fall off.

I did some research into E2 implants as I wanted my level to be more stable however after discussing it with my doctor we decided to try 1mg in the morning and 1mg in the evening instead of 2mg in the morning, with the option to go to implants if I was unhappy with the result.


                  Oestradiol(E2)     Testosterone
Date           pmol/L(pg/mL)    nmol/L(ng/dL)     Notes
=====================================================
03/06/22                               37.1(1,069)         Baseline
22/07/22     126(34)             20.2(582)            1x Lower Abdomen
30/09/22     191(52)             17.2(496)            1x Lower Abdomen, 1x Lower Back
21/11/22     1115(304)         1.6(46)                1x Lower Abdomen, 1x Lower Back, 1x Scrotum
13/03/23     691(188)                                        1x Both Inner Thighs, 1x Scrotum, Stopped RR
09/06/23     3587(977)         4.9(141)              1x Both Inner Thighs, 1x Scrotum, Bad Test, Test Re-Booked
15/06/23     93(25)                                            1x Both Inner Thighs, 1x Scrotum, Trough Level
20/09/23     341(93)             0.8(23)                1x Scrotum AM, 1x Scrotum PM, Trough Level
02/12/23     551(150)           0.7(20)                1x Scrotum AM, 1x Scrotum PM, Trough Level


Turns out that was the ideal solution for me, applying 1mg of Estradiol to my scrotum twice daily. I was happy with my trough E2 levels at 551pmol/L(150pg/mL), they were a little lower that I would have liked but they are within the desired range and they are trough levels after all, my E2 would be much higher a few hours after application. For the first time my T levels had dropped way down to 0.7nmol/L(20ng/dL) I never would have imagined that I could do mono-therapy Estrogen with only 2mg of Sandrena Gel daily. It was never my goal for my T to get that low, but I am much happier with my body running on Estrogen than T, I feel more content.

My current Regime:

Morning
HRT:
Sandrena (E2) 1x 1mg applied to scrotum.
Nature Balance Plus 5mg DHEA, 0.3mg E2, 1.2mg E3, 30mg P4 applied to both breasts.

NBE:
Vitamin C 1x 250mg
L-Tyrisone 1x 500mg
Blessed Thistle 1x 400mg
Panax Ginseng 1x 500mg
GABA 1x 750mg
MSM 2x 1000mg

Other Medications:
Curcumin 1x 600mg
L-Cartinine 1x 341mg
L-Argninine 1x 700mg

Evening
HRT:
Sandrena (E2) 1x 1mg applied to scrotum.
Nature Balance Plus 5mg DHEA, 0.3mg E2, 1.2mg E3, 30mg P4 applied to both breasts.
Utogestan (P4) 1x 200mg rectally.

NBE:
Vitamin C 1x 250mg
Calcium Citrate 2x 333mg
Vitamin D3 1x 10000IU
L-Tyrisone 1x 500mg
Blessed Thistle 1x 400mg
Panax Ginseng 1x 500mg
GABA 1x 750mg
MSM 2x 1000mg

Other Medications:
Tadalafil 1x 5mg
L-Cartinine 1x 341mg


19 Months HRT

My current Bra size is between 38B and 38C, I started wearing the 38C because it is slightly more comfortable.

I've read people say that PM and especially HRT is a slippery slope and it will most likely change the way you think. With what started as a desire to have breasts changing into a full blown desire to transition completely. I am relieved to say that I have not experienced anything along those lines with my desires and goals remaining unchanged right from when I started NBE.

I have no desire for my penis or testicles to shrink, I have ED as is to be expected on such low T, I take Tadalafil(Cialis) daily to combat this. I am also happy to report that there has been no notable shrinkage of either.

I am starting to get a feminine figure with my hips much wider than my waist and feminine fat distribution.

I would like larger nipples and have dabbled in Supple Nips and Noogleberry, I had good results with the Supple Nips, but I find myself lacking the time to do it regularly anymore. I work 12 hours a day for 14 days straight, then have a week off. I only have around 1hr at night when I'm at work and can never be bothered after such a long day and I am unable to when I'm home during my week off for privacy reasons.

Sorry for the long introduction, I would however like to end on a question or two. I have been considering starting Glandular Therapy with Bovine Ovary, Uterine and Pituitary as I hear it can make the changes more... permanent?. I have read that you shouldn't use BO unless you truly desire to transition all the way, but seeing as though I am already on HRT and don't ever see myself stopping, is there any reason I shouldn't use BO? Will it change anything that HRT alone isn't already doing, or will it simply compliment HRT and enhance the changes I'm already going through?

Regards,

Leggy

[Heaven's Night]

Hi.  

I can give my experience on glandulars, you probably wont lose anything from trying them out. They do work, but its a shot in the dark to see if it works for you. Some people do not benefit from these, but those who do, often get quite a milieage. The entire combo you mention is amazing! I've got huge benefit from it, not only breasts, but also lot of feminine fat distribution and obviously wider hips, thighs and butt.

I have a friend who's experiencing the same effects, my girlfriend is on these too and she's getting some, albeit less changes but she's naturally very slim. Also my dear friend Melissa has got massive breast development while on Bovine Ovary. So the anecdotes are there, but there's very little or no science on these thing. Try it out, see if it works for you as it might.

Oh and the likely effect is easier weight gain, lower body tends to gather a whole lot of feminine fat deposits and your breasts might grow quite significantly. No one seems to know why this works to some but not everybody, you wont lose much trying it out.

[Stevenator_]

Hello Leggy and thank you for the introduction and for saying hello!

I'm using Estogel myself, and I noticed when I was applying it to my inner wrists, I actually think my breast size reduced! That was a shocker. I've been using it only on my scrotum for the last six months and do admit it's more better than the forearm application point.

I have been rubbing excess or even a watered down product on my thighs, after rinsing my hands. Who's to say if it helps, but I guess it's more better than just washing the gel down the sink drain after washing your hands.

From the looks of your entire program, it appears that you've been taking notes here haha! You're getting excellent results and I hope you stick around here much longer. You'll be in good company, for sure!

[Leggy]

Hi.  

I can give my experience on glandulars, you probably wont lose anything from trying them out. They do work, but its a shot in the dark to see if it works for you. Some people do not benefit from these, but those who do, often get quite a milieage. The entire combo you mention is amazing! I've got huge benefit from it, not only breasts, but also lot of feminine fat distribution and obviously wider hips, thighs and butt.

I have a friend who's experiencing the same effects, my girlfriend is on these too and she's getting some, albeit less changes but she's naturally very slim. Also my dear friend Melissa has got massive breast development while on Bovine Ovary. So the anecdotes are there, but there's very little or no science on these thing. Try it out, see if it works for you as it might.

Oh and the likely effect is easier weight gain, lower body tends to gather a whole lot of feminine fat deposits and your breasts might grow quite significantly. No one seems to know why this works to some but not everybody, you wont lose much trying it out.

Thank you for your insight, I've dismissed it since before I started HRT. My thoughts have changed after doing some reading on your thread and the BO forum and I must admit I am intrigued by the possibility of permanent changes to my hormone production.

I assume that it's best to start at a low dose and slowly increase the dosage? or is starting high ok?

I would also like to thank you for so thoroughly documenting your journey, the highs and also the lows, it has been inspiring to follow and I'm sorry I never posted, I was usually a few months behind with my reading and was never truly up to date.

[Leggy]

Hello Leggy and thank you for the introduction and for saying hello!

I'm using Estogel myself, and I noticed when I was applying it to my inner wrists, I actually think my breast size reduced! That was a shocker. I've been using it only on my scrotum for the last six months and do admit it's more better than the forearm application point.

I have been rubbing excess or even a watered down product on my thighs, after rinsing my hands. Who's to say if it helps, but I guess it's more better than just washing the gel down the sink drain after washing your hands.

From the looks of your entire program, it appears that you've been taking notes here haha! You're getting excellent results and I hope you stick around here much longer. You'll be in good company, for sure!

Thank you for the warm welcome!

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know what your hormone levels are?

I must admit I have done a lot of reading here and have found a lot of good advice. Thank you, I am happy with my results, but more is better right? haha

I will endeavour to be more active on the posting side of things.

[Heaven's Night]

Awww, thanks. My thread has become a transition diary. It started as just about combining HRT with NBE sorcery but it evolved from there. I'm not posting stuff anywhere else in such detail. All the time less as social media is mostly just harmful.

With BO, I suggest to start from low dose, for example 500mg at first and slowly ramp up and not exceed the optimal dosage. I have taken mulri glandular (one with uterine) and pituitary in moderate doses only, but it seems that works and its also quite cheap. BO does its thing on low doses too, but I've noted changes being faster on higher doses, but never overdoing it... There was a trend of taking insane doses of the stuff which I think is downright stupid and unnecessary as all this hormone hacking is about balance and there's no sense in taking crazy health risks either.

My suggestion is to try starting at 500mg, then 750mg and later 1000mg for example, in say one month intervals. That way you will have enough time to know if it works and what the effects are and you can quite easily troubleshoot the situation if needed. And also stop if you get adverse effects for some reason.

I see you have plenty of stuffs in your program that deals with HGH and IGF-1, those are something to keep an eye out for as I've found this to be extremely useful on more than just boobs. So far it seems that moderate elevation of growth hormone and growth factors is amazing, for me along with things that keep prolactin high, its been one of the best parts of the whole program. Just looking through your program and it looks really good. (This reminds me that I have to post an update on the amino acid combo + fasting as it appears to be really good for both boobs, over all health and weight loss and I think the mention of surgery recovery is also spot on about it.)

[Leggy]

Thank you for the information, it's been really helpful.

It's good to hear that I'm on the right track with my program, the medications listed as other, are medications that I've been taking for another health related issue but I feel that there is some crossover there that is good.

I forgot to mention in my initial post that I also fast 16hrs a day, but that's something I've been doing for years for no reason other than it's what suits me, so I was glad to read that it's also good for HGH since I didn't have to change my routine at all!

[Leggy]

Hello,

Here's an update on my latest blood work:

                  Oestradiol(E2)     Testosterone
Date           pmol/L(pg/mL)    nmol/L(ng/dL)     Notes
=====================================================
20/09/23     341(93)             0.8(23)                1x Scrotum AM, 1x Scrotum PM, Trough Level
02/12/23     551(150)           0.7(20)                1x Scrotum AM, 1x Scrotum PM, Trough Level
23/02/24     384(105)           0.5(14)                1x Scrotum AM, 1x Scrotum PM, Trough Level

My T level is still dropping which is surprising considering no AA, I'm not too worried about the slightly lower E2 as it is still a trough level reading.

I started the Bovine Ovary & Uterine & Pituitary combination today so hopefully that works out well. Starting BO at 400mg (1x 250mg and the multiglandular which has 150mg)

[Leggy]

I've been doing some reading on Vitamin D Toxcicity and every article I read seems to think that the safe maximum is less than 4,000 IU daily.

The articles state the when we have too much Vitamin D our blood absorbs too much calcium which in the long term can cause kidney stones and damage to the heart.

It got me thinking about why I'm taking so much and is there any benefits for breast growth taking 10,000 IU daily over say 2,000 IU daily?

I know calcium is important for breast growth and that vitamin D helps with that, perhaps we need more than usual because our breasts are growing?

Can someone please explain the benefits of such a high dose if there is any?

[CM213]

Hi and welcome. Congratulations on and your continued success. You've made great progress already. Can't wait to see how you're journey progresses.