Hi there, I have been on Breastnexum a few years now, I tend to rather browse through here than open threads, but this time I just need to ask. I plan to start HRT in near future, not for actual transitioning, as I am not trans (I think...), but I am not happy with my body as it is right now.

Now on to the Question.

As far as I have understood there are multiple different ways to take E. Injection, sublingual, oral, patches and so on. My question is which one is the most effective for breast growth, and what would be the most effective dosage?

I read in one post that a trans girl stopped growing at a B cup from pills, but after injection grew to C cup in 2 just weeks.

My main goal is as stated not transitioning, but rather breast growth. I couldn't find any clear information on which has the highest probability for growth. As I live in Germany I can get a prescription from a doctor for basically any form of E, but from personal experience doctors don't always know better about specific details and tend to choose what they are used to. But since I can just ask for a specific therapy, I thought I might as well ask the professionals here.

Shout out to lotus, as I think lotus knows more about hormones than most Doctors  

I'd be happy to get some information from you guys, even if it's not scientific, but personal experience.

LG Alex

Don't do HRT if you're not transitioning. You can't pick and choose the physical changes it does to you. It can fuck up your mental health badly, its not a thing for cis men to dabble with. The changes it does is more than physical, much more and you might get more than you bargained for.

For the method of admin, oral pills are the worst, mainly for liver metabolism causing it to elevate blood clotting factors. Followed by patches and gel. Injection is the best. For reaching female hormone balance. One method is not better than the other considering body changes, but injection is known as the gold stadard for HRT for a good reason as nothing makes such high levels so easily. But then again, there are many stories of people stalling when switching especially to EEn (estradiol enanthate) for some reason.

But since you're a cis male(?), just don't do HRT, its not for you if the only body change you want is boobs, you're likely better off with NBE. HRT would give you everything else too and you don't probably like it. Cis guys get their mind fucked up from it, lose erections, feminise all over other than just growing boobs and its also morally questionable that cis guys take stuff which is actually meant for cis and trans women to treat actual medical issues rather than seeking self pleasure from having boobs... Then again, who am I to gatekeep anyone. Doctors very likely will do that anyway as they're not handing this stuff out like candy.

I would echo what Lara has stated. A breast augmentation would be the way to go if one wants breasts and does not want to transition. HRT will indeed alter everything along with breasts.

Oh sorry I might have not stated it clear enough, I am quite sure that I am not a cis male, nor do I believe that I am trans feminine. If I had to choose male or female I would definitely pick female, but as far as I know that does not necessarily make me trans...? I am not real that informed about all the different genders and how they are called. From what I know I would probably be in the category non binary or gender fluid, but as I am not so sure myself I prefer not using terms I am unsure about.

Sorry for the confusion. My main goal for HRT is of course breast growth, but body fat redistribution, less body hair, more feminine in general is for me not an unwanted side effects but rather a bonus, only negative would be erectile dysfunction,  but not for myself but rather my girlfriend. Like I said I'd rather be a woman than a man, but with my knowledge about my own body ...(my genetics "blessed" me with the dream body of most guys. Wide shoulders, easy muscle growth, a rather masculine face and strong beard growth and so on... a blessing for some a curse to me.) I am pretty sure that no matter what I do I will not actually look like a woman, even if HRT has good effects and works better than I expect it to. Since I know I can't be a woman and I am not 100% sure I want to be one, but I also don't want to be a man, I decided to settle somewhere in between..?

Sorry if it's confusing but I am confused myself. Hope this clears up the misunderstanding. 

Then I have another question. How do estrogen injections work? Is it like one every day, or week or month and does a doctor give them, or do I inject them myself?

Btw, I really dislike "trans feminine" as its so othering, its one of these language things that in a nasty way is pushing trans women away from being ACTUAL women.... Just a nitpick I guess. The point being, transgender existence is obviously a spectrum, but its simple, people just make up make believe titles to everything these days. There's three things, men, women and non binary and latter covers everything that's something other than, its not more complicated than that.

Your experience and needs seem to land somewhere in the non binary spectrum and that's totally cool, maybe (partial?) medical transition is the right way to go then? HRT will give you the whole package, then its genetics and tweaking your hormone balance and a bit of luck which determines how much changes you get. For maintaining erectins, I suggest you practice a LOT! Keep it working by using it and then supplement with viagra when needed, its absolutely doable, albeit not the easiest to pull off. Lot of non op trans women who like their male parts keep it functioning like that despite being on HRT.

You maybe want to look into a typical HRT program which would be for example, Estradiol Valerate injections, progesterone on 100-200mg per day and some effective testosterone blocker on smallest needed dosage.

Injection is the best easily available method there is and you can even get it very cheap from the grey market if you will. Depending on which estrer it is, that determines the injection cycle, for EV (valerate) its typically from twice a week to once every five days. For EEn (enanthate) its once a week to once every ten days or so. EV and EEn are the most typical types, but there are several even slower acting ones which have longer injection cycle. I have settled for EV every 3.5 days, so twice a week, that way I avoid the severe highs and lows as for me stable levels are the best for both body changes and mental health and it means less mood swings. Knowing which of these is the most practical is about just trying them, I tested EEn but it felt like my body doesn't metabolise it well for some reason, whereas EV works extremely well, but of course its a bit of a hassle to inject twice a week. Usually you will get to do it on your own, that's the easiest way. There's a bit of learning curve but its very simple once you get a hang of it.

The injection is typically done subcutaneously, meaning injected to fat deposit. Typical best spot is upper part of buttocks, in my case at my hip or upper part of thigh as I'm not flexible enough to inject back there on my own. Also lower tummy is good, below waist, into a fat deposit. Another method is intramuscular and that typically means injecting with longer needle to your thigh muscle. This gives higher highs and lower lows as it metabolises faster than subcutaneous injection. Typical needle for SC injection is for example a 30 gauge 12,7mm insulin needle. I use the old fashion ones with permanent needle, that has almost no deadspace so no medicine is wasted. The length of the needle means its deep subcutaneous which I think is the nicest method. For IM, typical needle is a bit thicker and 25,4mm or one inch long to reach the muscle. Both are quite painless when you get used to it, but SC is even nicer as very thin needle works just fine.

Injecting is simple, cleanliness is top priority. Needle should never touch anything except the vial cap and the injection spot. I always wipe the vial cap and injection spot with disinfectant and never toucht the needle with anything, they're single packed and sterile so they're clean unless tainted somehow. For getting air bubbles out of the syringe, google it, there are good video instructions for that. Shaking the syringe in correct way will gather all air into one bubble, then you can let it float to the top and gently squeeze it out until a tiny drop of medicine comes out, this way you will never accidently inject air into your body. We're not hitting veins, but this is just a precaution.

I hope this helps.

Shout out to lotus, as I think lotus knows more about hormones than most Doctors  

I'd be happy to get some information from you guys, even if it's not scientific, but personal experience.

LG Alex

Hi Dibraru, I can neither confirm or deny the above statement thank you for the compliment   What would you like to know from my personal experiences on NBE/HRT?

First of all thanks HelloDiDi, that was a very informative insight. As for the price I have to say that as I plan to get it officially approved, my health insurance would have to pay for it ?.  But you said something about the highs and lows which make sense to me as you of course have higher concentration of E right after the I jection compared to days later, but wouldn't Patches be a better solution then? Since the dosage you get is permanently constant?

Hi lotus. What way of HRT would be your choice and how did it work for you in general?

If you don't want all the changes that doctor-prescribed HRT will bring, you will have to take frequent breaks. I disagree that one shouldn't do HRT if you aren't some level of trans as defined by others. That's gatekeeping and not cool IMHO. You are allowed to do you as they say.

I would also suggest that you consider the herbal route if you want to maintain as much as possible your erections and to avoid genital atrophy while on HRT. Much of your abilities will come back while off but some shrinkage is probably unavoidable. Herbal is slower but it doesn't nuke your sexual desire and genitals quite as fast.

I've done both and I really had no mental changes as far as I could tell. I was the same me on HRT as off HRT. Although I will say when I have been off HRT, I feel much better physically and more energetic.

I do agree however that if you want insta-breasts without the hassle of hormones, breast augmentation might be the way. But your tits won't be the same. For me, I wanted real tits and prefer the look - even if they may not be as perfect as implants make them look.

Good luck!

,,,

Hi lotus. What way of HRT would be your choice and how did it work for you in general?

Hi Dibraru, I started NBE march of 2012, I lurked at Breastnexus for a year until before I joined on 8-6-2013 (i was about a B-cup).

This was my goal at that time. 

My goal was to prove that a guy could grow bigger than B-cup*

In 2014 I started on HRT (diy) with the thinking of just seeing how far things will go. In 2015 I decided it was time to have my care managed by an HRT doctor. There's a ton more back story (described in the X-thread) to how the whole process went, including deciding to start on my transition journey. By the time I saw my first doctor (an endocrinologist who was transphobic) told me, and I quote “you know you can get those cut-off” (I was a D/DD cup at that point). I've tried every form of HRT, currently i'm using a compounded E2 cream (10% E2 and 10% DMSO) created by Dr. Powers and forumalted through a compounding pharmacy, applied to my inner arms. I was having bruising with needle injections and site reactions using E2 patches from having Leukemia. So far I like using the cream the route. As Dr. Powers explains it he takes his patients off oral E2 after 2-3 years and then switches them to E2 injections for better breast growth outcomes. Another point Dr.Powers makes is about how staying on oral E2 pills for long periods isn't healthy and increases the risks of heart attacks... especially as one ages. 

So, I crushed my goal with NBE , now I'm a L-cup. I had an orchi in 2/2020, went off HRT for two years (doctors order) because I was making my own E2 (in the female range). That was a horrible decision because I broke my ankle by the second year… mainly from the lack of hormones (including testosterone). I parted ways with that HRT doctor and started with the Dr. Powers family medicine, turns out to be the best decision I ever made concerning my transition. As for how it all turned out? well, my second goal was to be curvilicious  I'm happy with the results.   

To sum things up, you have to decide how  or what program you'll start. Imho, it matters not whether you choose NBE or HRT and here's why; starting NBE with PM behaves like starting with bioidentical oral E2. Meaning, breast development is kicked off by E1 (which PM stimulates behaves more like E1) to grow breast buds, (or also known as T.E.B’s (terminal end buds). 

The TEB is responsible for the production of mature cell types leading to the elongation of the subtending duct

The Terminal End Bud: the Little Engine that Could
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5488158/

After being on PM (to further develop and mature breasts you'll need to move HRT. Perhaps more people jump on HRT first over using NBE, without planning to transition. One goal in growing breasts is getting androgens to a favorable Testosterone level @ 50 ng/dL. Some get freaked out at having they're T at that range, sex is still doable at that range. I started using Dr. Powers T-cream which helps with penis atrophy. Even with having an orchi I still have (and enjoy sex). One aspect of using T cream or a T gel is that it rescues (grows back girth (@ 2-3 fold) and can grow back some length. I'll be posting my most recent lab results with being on the T cream and you'll see it hasn't impacted my E2 levels or loss of breast size. Adding an effective anti-androgen is key though (for me that's bicalutamide). One thing for sure is if you have any doubts of having breasts (or wanting them) don't do it. After you grow breasts those remain… only removable by surgery.  

There's certainly more to add about this subject but I'll save that for later. Oh one more thing though, you don't need to take breaks… I thought this was important in the beginning of my research, but after growing breasts for the last 12 years it turns out not to be a big thing. Any potential risks of developing breast cancer from E2 is reduced by using progesterone… which has been proven in many research studies. Think of it this way too, taking breaks means one could lose the gains (as growth tissues) if you let androgens have an advantage.