[olgaitsuka]

I have ordered Ovarian Glandular (same as BO?) and Saw Palmetto from iHerb, and it's said to arrive somewhere between January 1st and 10th.
However, my reasons for taking them are different from most of you, but allow me to explain first.

Back in 2019 I started experiencing balding of my scalp, and at the same time I got very frequent erections.
I really hated both of these, so I was looking to lower my testosterone levels (at the time I didn't realize it wasn't the testosterone that was causing problems, but DHT).
I started taking Pueraria Marifica after looking for ways to reduce testosterone and maybe increase estrogen, since at the time I also wished for my genitals to be much smaller.
And I continued taking them until around autumn 2023, and had some occasional breaks due to financial constraints.
The PM caused the hair I lost to regrow and erections to go away completely, so I was happy with that.
At the time I wasn't aware of any of the feminizing effects, because I was very obese back then.

The reason why I stopped taking PM last year was because I went on a ketogenic diet, and that quickly became the carnivore diet, which I'm still on to this day, because I feel so good that I simply don't see a reason to quit.
This caused my weight to go all the way down to the normal range (in BMI terms), and also healed sicknesses I didn't realize I had like type 2 diabetes.
However, since PM is plant-based, I feared it would interfere with the carnivore diet too much.
As I slimmed down, I started noticing that PM did in fact have feminizing effects on me.
My breasts grew to an A-cup, my pelvis widened, my arms came over as more feminine (somehow), I got a slightly noticeable hourglass shape (with muscles), and fat has partially redistributed to female areas, which are all still present even after having been off PM for over a year.
However, the 2 things I fixed with PM has been undone, as I started getting erections again, and I started balding again.

Recently I came across BO, which not only tends to be much more effective than PM, but also seems to be animal-based too, which is really good.
When I asked ChatGPT about it, it told me it's better to take Saw Palmetto, but combining it with BO might enhance hair regrowth and also stops erections.
But AI tends to hallucinate a lot, and it seems like BO has been pretty well battle tested on this forum, which is why I registered.

I know that Saw Palmetto is plant-based, but I also drink coffee and occasionally eat some raw honey and seasonal fruit, so I'm not that strict anymore.

I am not necessarily looking for the feminization of my body or breast growth, but I don't mind doing so, since a little bit of it has already happened under PM anyway.
Besides, I surprisingly like the feminization of my body, as it's not as pronounced, which makes it possible to hide it away in society, while at the same time I enjoy the look and feel of it while in private.
If anything, further feminizing my body would just make it much easier to cosplay at anime conventions, so I consider it a plus.

So my questions are as follows:
1. In comparison to PM, how potent is BO (Swanson)?
2. Does anyone have experience with combining BO with Saw Palmetto (both Swanson)?
3. How true are the claims of changes caused by BO being permanent?
4. Would BO alone also aid in reversing hair loss, or would combining it with SP be a better idea?
5. What dosages for each can be recommended? As stated, feminization is not the main priority, but it's certainly nice to have.

Whichever the recommended dosage is, I have decided to take those long term, since as I've seen with PM, if I stop taking them, my 2 biggest problems return.

[Heaven's Night]

Don't ask AI about this, much better to ask from real people who know some real facts about this stuff.

1. In comparison to PM, how potent is BO (Swanson)?

Much more to those who benefit from it, BO likely works much better when its taken on top of existing female hormone balance. It seems to have a lot of variance on the effects, some people get nothing from it, others very little and few get very lucky. It is not well understood nor explained exaqctly why this happens, but a lot of speculation exists if you read the forums.

So yes, it could be. Any herbal stuff on its own isn't super effective anyway, but when the correct combination is taken on top of existing female hormone balance, amazing things can happen.

2. Does anyone have experience with combining BO with Saw Palmetto (both Swanson)?

I have no idea as I've never tried SP.

3. How true are the claims of changes caused by BO being permanent?

Read my main thread in members only section. The changes are permanent, breast tissue will stay, fatty tissue requires hormone balance to upkeep it and it can change along with weight changes. I've been posting here for more than four years and my "claims" are backed with pictures, measurements, details about every single program change on the way. Note that I'm on very powerful HRT program also, the NBE is icing on the cake, enhancing the effects of the said HRT.

Also there are others, Mel87 for example but she hasn't posted for a long time. She too got massive gains from bovine ovary + other NBE used on top of HRT program, her and mine programs were almost identical, our development mirrored each other. One little fact to note is that this experience might be different to intersex transgender women as we likely have genetic and hormonal advantage.

4. Would BO alone also aid in reversing hair loss, or would combining it with SP be a better idea?

It might, or it might not. BO is likely to change your hormone balance, but how much and in which way, that I can't tell. It is likely to swing things towards female balance, but likely not dramatically unless aided by conventional HRT. I have no idea if its good to take with SP. I suggest you look into minoxidil or other such medicine to help with hairloss and look into supplementation on the side. Biotin alone could work wonders with your hair. Also look into dermarolling, there's a whole lot you can do about hairloss which is more guaranteed to work than BO on its own.

5. What dosages for each can be recommended? As stated, feminization is not the main priority, but it's certainly nice to have.


1500mg a day keeps being quoted as an optimal dose. In my experience as low as 400mg will work, higher dosage brings same exact effects, but somewhat faster. Above 1000mg is where it seems to become more obvious, I wouldn't exceed 2000-2500mg as it would likely just be wasteful without additional benefits.

[olgaitsuka]

Don't ask AI about this, much better to ask from real people who know some real facts about this stuff.

I know, which is why I came to ask here.

Much more to those who benefit from it, BO likely works much better when its taken on top of existing female hormone balance. It seems to have a lot of variance on the effects, some people get nothing from it, others very little and few get very lucky. It is not well understood nor explained exaqctly why this happens, but a lot of speculation exists if you read the forums.

So yes, it could be. Any herbal stuff on its own isn't super effective anyway, but when the correct combination is taken on top of existing female hormone balance, amazing things can happen.

So it's much more potent for those who already have more E than T?
I thought BO required T for aromatazation.

Read my main thread in members only section. The changes are permanent, breast tissue will stay, fatty tissue requires hormone balance to upkeep it and it can change along with weight changes. I've been posting here for more than four years and my "claims" are backed with pictures, measurements, details about every single program change on the way. Note that I'm on very powerful HRT program also, the NBE is icing on the cake, enhancing the effects of the said HRT.

I'll take a look.

It might, or it might not. BO is likely to change your hormone balance, but how much and in which way, that I can't tell. It is likely to swing things towards female balance, but likely not dramatically unless aided by conventional HRT. I have no idea if its good to take with SP. I suggest you look into minoxidil or other such medicine to help with hairloss and look into supplementation on the side. Biotin alone could work wonders with your hair. Also look into dermarolling, there's a whole lot you can do about hairloss which is more guaranteed to work than BO on its own.

I eat 10 eggs a day, so I should have more than enough biotin.
Which is why I suspect the problem is I have too much DHT.
Even more so that just taking PM alone was seemingly enough to reverse hair loss back then, which lowers the amount of testosterone, which in turn lowers the amount of it that gets turned into DHT.

1500mg a day keeps being quoted as an optimal dose. In my experience as low as 400mg will work, higher dosage brings same exact effects, but somewhat faster. Above 1000mg is where it seems to become more obvious, I wouldn't exceed 2000-2500mg as it would likely just be wasteful without additional benefits.

1000mg doesn't sound too bad.
I went above that on PM back then, and PM is significantly more expensive than BO, even despite that BO needs to be imported from across the ocean, whereas PM is readily available locally.

[Heaven's Night]

The aromatase boost BO does is only a part of why and how it works. I'm not exactly sure about what kind of T levels it would require, but the fact is, it works well with suppressed T levels so aromatase clearly isn't the only piece of the puzzle. Then again, my T levels aren't insignificantly low despite being well on suppressed range so there's that of course, but for example Melissa I mentioned had her T levels lower than mine and yet was very successful with BO.

This just appears to be a pattern that keeps repeating that often times those who benefit the most already have female hormone balance in place, but its not a requirement. Bovine ovary is a bit random on to whom it works. There's speculation about possible need for certain genetic traits or body temperature on what makes it work, but nothing conclusive on this has come up yet.

Yes that sure sounds like a DHT problem. Perhaps you should consider either red reishi or some sort of a pharma DHT blocker? Reishi is at least obvious choice, its quite effective and doesn't cost arm and leg, correctly dosed it should be able to lower 80-90% of DHT on its own which is quite remarkable.

I noticed the effects of BO get faster and more obvious when dosage exceeds 750mg. I've done it all the way up to 2300mg which all seem effective and higer doses mean slightly faster changes. 1000mg is four capsules a day, it wouldn't be crazy expensive either.

[olgaitsuka]

The aromatase boost BO does is only a part of why and how it works. I'm not exactly sure about what kind of T levels it would require, but the fact is, it works well with suppressed T levels so aromatase clearly isn't the only piece of the puzzle. Then again, my T levels aren't insignificantly low despite being well on suppressed range so there's that of course, but for example Melissa I mentioned had her T levels lower than mine and yet was very successful with BO.

This just appears to be a pattern that keeps repeating that often times those who benefit the most already have female hormone balance in place, but its not a requirement. Bovine ovary is a bit random on to whom it works. There's speculation about possible need for certain genetic traits or body temperature on what makes it work, but nothing conclusive on this has come up yet.

Yes that sure sounds like a DHT problem. Perhaps you should consider either red reishi or some sort of a pharma DHT blocker? Reishi is at least obvious choice, its quite effective and doesn't cost arm and leg, correctly dosed it should be able to lower 80-90% of DHT on its own which is quite remarkable.

I noticed the effects of BO get faster and more obvious when dosage exceeds 750mg. I've done it all the way up to 2300mg which all seem effective and higer doses mean slightly faster changes. 1000mg is four capsules a day, it wouldn't be crazy expensive either.

Very interesting.

A bit offtopic, but somewhere else on this forum I found this document: http://mustgrowbust.com/wp-content/uploa...UIDE-C.pdf
That one mentions a combination of BO and Pituitary Glandular, and specifies it as something that has prolactin.
I frequently drink raw milk, which is rich in prolactin too.

The red reishi suggestion is helpful, it's only a bit expensive, so I hope the dosage doesn't need to be crazy high.

[Heaven's Night]

I took pituitary as a part of the glandular program for quite long time. It felt that the combination made weight gain much easier, most of which keeps on coming on right places, but breast development has been largely just as good with or without Pituitary. About if it elevates prolactin I do not know as I've had several items going on at the same time which have an effect on prolactin.

Prolactin boost can be beneficial, I'm not sure about the role of pituitary glandular in it though. Golactalogues such as milk thistle, goat's rue etc., do quite a bit to prolactin levels. It might be that pituitary helped with it too, but I'm not sure about it. So far BO has worked fine on its own, and maybe even slightly better as a combination with uterine and pituitary.

Look for reishi which has high percentage of polysaccharides, the one I was on years ago was dosed as 180mg capsules, made from extract and it had quite high plysaccharide content.