[nobody1985]

Hi,

i got this cream:

BiEst

So i assume just replace PM with that?
How many to apply?
Is this safe without progesterone (cancer)?
thx!

[Heaven's Night]

How is it dosed? A pump bottle? Those typically have 20mg per pump. I don't know how much. It should be safe unless you dose it insanely high. What is your purpose with it? Over all hormone levels or a topical protocol of some sort?

These are quite mild compared to conventional HRT unless you use big doses, keep that in mind. On its own it might not do a huge difference if your body is testosterone dominant without anything inhibiting T or DHT levels.

If you plan to use it topically, please read the Topical Cream Protocol thread and add in Progesterone and DHEA in some form at least. This combination should keep cancer risks at bay and works fantastically together, estradiol alone wont have the same effect or it will be much slower.

[nobody1985]

Its a tube, so no dosing out of the box.
Topical would be an issue without anything else.
Currently i have RR and PM and i thought about replacing the PM wit the cream.
The cream says to change location of application every day but i don't know what a genetically male has to consider.

Progesterone might be also sourced by iherb i expect... delivery to europe.

[Heaven's Night]

Double post, sorry for that, this can be deleted.

[Heaven's Night]

I forgot to add this, I keep seeing it being repeated here time and again, men wanting to kind of dance on the fence with breast development, wanting boobs while being scared of losing male function and many seem to think you can magically be "best of both worlds" when that kind of scenario hormonally speaking cannot work out really well.

What I'm aiming at, is that Bi-Est cream which usually has estradiol and estriol (E2 & E3) on its own is unlikely to be powerful enough to cause much body changes. As HRT method its quite weak, if not mega dosed which isn't really good idea and likely to cost more than actually good conventional HRT.

But as a part of NBE program, especially topical protocol it can be very useful. But when comparing to PM, its bioidentical real female hormones, that will ALWAYS win hands down compared to phytoestrogens on their own because it is the real deal, not a plant based mimic. Then again, many phytoestrogens are very useful to be taken on the side of conventional HRT and as part of NBE programs. When going for bioidentical estrogens however, I would leave PM out of the equation, I would leave it anyway due to blood clotting concerns. In this sense, estrogen creams are way better no matter how you're using them.

If your concern about cancer is about breast cancer, that risk can be kept in check by various means, but of course nothing's truly "safe" when you're growing breasts as all, especially rapid growth has a risk of turning cancerous. But armed with information on breast cancer rarity amongst trans women, I would say most men who do NBE can keep going at it without much fear of developing breast cancer. I'm in far greater risk for example than any of you guys because I've grown so much so quickly. 

As for how much to apply depends on your needs. Its a bit hard to compare as creams often have high doses in milligrams, but it doesn't absorb as well as estrogel for example, let alone injection which only needs fraction of the dose per day to be highly efficient. As part of the topical protocol, I've used one or two pumps of estriol cream so it ened up being 20-40mg per day, it was of course mixed with everything else and applied to rather wide surface area.

[nobody1985]

My goal is not a fast  big growth.
I just want 3 cm circumference more so its a A cup even if stopping or losing weight, that looks unusual for others but not too concerning.
Also slower is less wtf to the people around me.
And i assume, dont know if that is true, less mass = less risk for cancer?

[Heaven's Night]

I don't know how exactly to measure breast cancer risk, it ofc would make sense that bigger volume of tissue = more places for growth becoming cancerous. I'm quite certain though that environmental and genetic factors are far greater than breast volume. 

If you want them big fast, then just go for implants instead. NBE, even when done on top of conventional HRT (which btw, is the only very certain way to breast development.) is not a sprint, but a marathon. It takes years no matter what you do. Typical breast development takes five to ten years to complete and some times even longer as growth potential exists for life.

You will not see massive changes with just estrogen creams. If you want it all, you have to do it all and that means combining conventional HRT with all the best NBE methods and even then its a roll of dice with genetics, age and luck. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is fast or easy or that there's any other guaranteed way to big boobs than implants. Everything else is slow and gradual and there's ton of factors to it.

its the best to consider your methods and needs quite a bit before you commit yourself to this anyway. I see too many men here being all fired uop by their boob fetish who think there's a magic pill you can take to get to it overnight. That's not how this stuff works.

I suggest you do more reading on the forum, there's tons of great advice, Project-X thread by Lotus is a massive read of thousands of posts, there's a lot of good information in there but it can be a chore to dig through, well worth it though. Then there's Topical Cream Protocol thread again by Lotus and myself as I've done quite a bit of tweaking and experimenting on the said program. Then Freya/Valkyrie has posted interesting stuff about massage techniques, Squirrels threads are worth checking out and I guess my main thread might be the easiest read for having an overview about what typically works for many people here.

Just remember that no matter what you do, you can't rush breast growth. Its more about resielience of watching paint dry, it takes years regardless of methods, excluding plastic surgery. 

[wee2er]

I'll just add to what HH has said.

I too would stay away from PM, there's just too many on here who have suffered HRT induced DVT, which as I am sure you know is a killer. DVT is a known side effect of PM, worth the gamble just for the sake of boobs?

From my research on breast cancer, it has little if nothing to do with volume/size, its a mix of all things from genetics, lifestyle, family history, age, density and much more.
 
Unfortunately no studies on MTFs breast cancer risks has been carried out, well none that my extensive searches has found.

However, research that has been done tells us that breast cancer in men is very rare, something like 1% of breast cancer diagnosis is male. The only evidence that I have come across regarding MTF breast cancer is just the one case, but they concluded that it most likely had little/nothing to do with HRT, as there are so many other variables. 

They advise application of oestrogen/progesterone creams across diffrent body areas because there is research proving that high levels of E/PG in breast tissue does increase the risk slightly, in women who already have breasts. This may ring true for MTFs such as HH whom as she acknowledges, dense breast tissue with high levels of E & PG, may well put her at a slightly higher risk.

Een injections that I'm on are causing my modest B-cups to become denser, as such I am engaging my GP to hopefully agree an appropriate care plan, however, I'm not in the slightest bit worried about breast cancer, it's just a preference to get checked up properly, as what happens with my other long-standing health issues.

I'm male staying male, and like HH says, you can't have both worlds, compromises have to be made.

I'd suggest doing lots more research, set out clearly what your goals are, weigh up the risk versus reward of NBE, HRT, etc and decide accordingly.

Hope that helps.