20-07-2011, 01:24 PM
non herbal breast enhancement methods?
July 10 2008 at 11:43 AM
Dee (Login moonstruck61)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know this forum is *heavily* focused on herbal methods, however, I can no longer dabble in herbals because I am on prescription hormones now, under a doctors care and have been told very bluntly by my doctor and a lot of other people that KNOW what they are talking about to stay away from herbs and ovary products or anything that has phytoestrogens i it.
I inject 40mg of Delestrogen in my butt every week and I take 200mg of Spironolactone daily to kill testosterone production. I had my hormone levels checked in the lab and my T level is down in the teens, that is lower than most normal natal female levels and far, far, far below the lowest acceptable male level.
My estrogen levels are crazy high, I have more estrogen in my system than 4 women combined.
I am taking the maximum levels of estrogen and testosterone blockers that I can safely.
The doctor along with everyone else has warned me that phytoestrogens will sabotage the real estrogen and render is useless. The weaker phytos bond easily with your estrogen receptors and end up blocking the stronger estrogen from binding. Not good. You piss away your expensive perscription stuff then.
So, now what I need to know is, what other ways, methods, products, herbs, lotions, ointments are there I can take that will help to accelerate my feminization but are NOT phytoestrogenic and will not interfere with my prescription estrogen and T blocker?
I want to try the MACA thing for a bigger butt, and I've heard that PABA can help with your boobs but does PABA have any estrogenic properties? I have also been told Whey protein shakes help. I would like to mix it with Soy milk but I have to stay away from that too because we know what soy is.
Any suggestions on NDE that doesn't include estrogenic herbs?
Thanks.
_______________________________________
Dee aka Morticia
Author Reply
SLG
(no login) herbs and prescription July 10 2008, 2:41 PM
As with any other herbal remedies, you shouldn't take both for that reason, as an example; taking blood pressure medicine or any other medicine with grapefruit or it's derivitives. It's said that grapefruit prevents the absorbtion of said medicines. There's no reason to take the herbals with the official drugs. Period. I took estraiol for three years, wow, I loved them! They took me over the point of no return, but now, I don't really need them after ten years. The herbals now are keeping me where I'm happy. No loss as far as that is concern. I believe that there is a place for both.
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SLG
(no login) ERRRR..... July 10 2008, 2:50 PM
By the way, patience is a good non herbal remedy too. Your body will can only do so much. You are throwing it into shock right now anyways. I don't know your lifestyle, but usually the brain will have to catch up with the body in many ways. Such as having to becoming another person out in the open where the whole world can see you. RLT,at least for most of us means you don't dress up at home anymore right? Plus you have to grow up once again, as a new person or at least a changed person. All that takes time. I'd say just sit back and enjoy the ride. I did.
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Sylvia
(no login) Re: non herbal breast enhancement methods? July 10 2008, 2:54 PM
I took injections of the same stuff years ago. It was simply known generically as estradiol valerate and then somewhere around 1997 was unavailable for purchase in the US. So I switched to estinyl estradiol (Estrace) tablets, taken sublingually, and been taking that pretty much ever since.
I'm certain your doc has warned you about the risks of blood clots, and I certainly hope you don't smoke (Bad in general, but a really bad idea with massive levels of estrogen) And of course there is the recent research about a significant increase in breast cancer risk among natal women with HRT. This has me greatly concerned as TS regimens are typically about 8-10 times higher than the typical post-menopausal dose. I asked my doctor, and he just brushed it aside with a "I wouldn't worry too much about that."
So, after about 15 years on HRT, I have enough tissue essentially for a respectable B-Cup on an average frame, but on my amazonian physique, it appears more like a AA-cup unless I'm bent forward at the waist. Not thrilled with the idea of implants, so I've been researching off and on, and occasionally blowing money on sundry pills, creams, and/or gadgets. So I have a fair amount of experience, though not a whole lot of success.
Anyway, I guess my main input would be, are you taking any progestins? Either as a monthly shot of depo-provera, or using a progesterone cream? Your hormones could be out of whack otherwise.
As to other methods, I'm not sure I fully agree with your docs warnings about not mixing Rx estrogen with PEs. Estradiol is the most powerful estrogen there is, but women also have estriol and estrone as well. Then there's prolactin which in sufficient amounts will cause you to lactate, (I've had a couple rather embarrassing incidents myself) but also plays a role in breast enlargement. Pregnant/nursing mothers do experience quite a bit of breast growth, and often retain much of it afterward.
Spironolactone is great and relatively inexpensive for an anti-androgen, but my problem with it is its potassium sparing properties. I just can't do without oranges and bananas and other high-potassium foods on a regular basis. Finasteride is just way out of my budget. Saw palmetto is probably the best bet all the way around.
In any case, skip the red clover or pueraria mirifica if you're really concerned about PEs interfering with your Rx mones. But I don't think making use of fenugreek, fennel, and/or wild yam would cause too much harm, and may have some benefit. But I'm not a doctor, not your doctor, and certainly not you, so take that into consideration as well.
I think regular breast massage is a very good idea. Anything that encourages the blood to circulate and stimulate the area may help to encourage new tissue growth. Forget about the Brava/Bosom Beauty/Noogleberry/et al. These devices are also trying to stimulate tissue to encourage new growth, and some people have had success with them. Most are ghastly expensive, they're prone to break, they're inconvenient to use on a regular basis, and some create such intense suction that your breasts hurt, are swollen (not in a good way) and leave you with deep red marks all around your breasts which may lay from a few minutes to most of a day! Such intense and prolonged stretching of the tissue may cause capillaries to break and stretch out the skin encouraging sagging (something that should always be discouraged)
That's my $0.02, rambling though it may have been.
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SLG
(Login photofetish) yes.. July 10 2008, 3:07 PM
I totally agree. That's my two cents, or four, or six.....
Edit Message Delete Message
Fennel Fairy
(no login) Herb Free... July 10 2008, 7:52 PM
As opposed to previous poster, I would NOT recommend fennel etc because that's really weak phytos and they will compete with your injected estrogen for receptor space, weakening your overall estrogen effect. No phytoestrogens at all is what I recommend, which means avoid soy products too. There is soy hidden in a lot of ready made food so read labels.
What you CAN use:
Gelatine may play an important part in the growth of connective tissues
Collagen same as gelatine, but also helps skin firmness (prevent future sagging)
Cayenne capsules (increases circulation, and therefore estrogen distribution to breasts)
A tablespoon of coconut oil per day (helps metabolism)
Goat's Rue (a galactagogue but NOT estrogenic)- Will promote prolactin
Massage with neutral massage oil or lotion without phytos and use a heating pad after massage
Not everyone's cup of tea, but there is also:
Hypnosis (to use your subconscious mind to work for you and control body processes)
Affirmations and positive thinking (my boobs are HUGE!)
Mind over matter (watch the film THE SECRET and peel off the glossy **** and just concentrate on the core of the message. it is very inspirational and motivating if you look past the surface)
Edit Message Delete Message
Dee
(Login moonstruck61) Re: non herbal breast enhancement methods? July 14 2008, 12:43 AM
Thank you all, I will try to get back later and address the various replies soon.
I AM under the care and supervision of a doctor and I do have a legal and legit prescription for Delestrogen and Spironolactone. I am well aware of the health risks involved and that is why I sought out a doctor that is experienced in and specializes in transgender women.
Of all the options available, injectable estrogen is the lowest risk for DVT and other bad things.
And no, I DO NOT smoke. So that's not an issue at all. I won't even get within 20 feet of someone that smokes. :-/
Thanks!
July 10 2008 at 11:43 AM
Dee (Login moonstruck61)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know this forum is *heavily* focused on herbal methods, however, I can no longer dabble in herbals because I am on prescription hormones now, under a doctors care and have been told very bluntly by my doctor and a lot of other people that KNOW what they are talking about to stay away from herbs and ovary products or anything that has phytoestrogens i it.
I inject 40mg of Delestrogen in my butt every week and I take 200mg of Spironolactone daily to kill testosterone production. I had my hormone levels checked in the lab and my T level is down in the teens, that is lower than most normal natal female levels and far, far, far below the lowest acceptable male level.
My estrogen levels are crazy high, I have more estrogen in my system than 4 women combined.
I am taking the maximum levels of estrogen and testosterone blockers that I can safely.
The doctor along with everyone else has warned me that phytoestrogens will sabotage the real estrogen and render is useless. The weaker phytos bond easily with your estrogen receptors and end up blocking the stronger estrogen from binding. Not good. You piss away your expensive perscription stuff then.
So, now what I need to know is, what other ways, methods, products, herbs, lotions, ointments are there I can take that will help to accelerate my feminization but are NOT phytoestrogenic and will not interfere with my prescription estrogen and T blocker?
I want to try the MACA thing for a bigger butt, and I've heard that PABA can help with your boobs but does PABA have any estrogenic properties? I have also been told Whey protein shakes help. I would like to mix it with Soy milk but I have to stay away from that too because we know what soy is.
Any suggestions on NDE that doesn't include estrogenic herbs?
Thanks.
_______________________________________
Dee aka Morticia
Author Reply
SLG
(no login) herbs and prescription July 10 2008, 2:41 PM
As with any other herbal remedies, you shouldn't take both for that reason, as an example; taking blood pressure medicine or any other medicine with grapefruit or it's derivitives. It's said that grapefruit prevents the absorbtion of said medicines. There's no reason to take the herbals with the official drugs. Period. I took estraiol for three years, wow, I loved them! They took me over the point of no return, but now, I don't really need them after ten years. The herbals now are keeping me where I'm happy. No loss as far as that is concern. I believe that there is a place for both.
Edit Message Delete Message
SLG
(no login) ERRRR..... July 10 2008, 2:50 PM
By the way, patience is a good non herbal remedy too. Your body will can only do so much. You are throwing it into shock right now anyways. I don't know your lifestyle, but usually the brain will have to catch up with the body in many ways. Such as having to becoming another person out in the open where the whole world can see you. RLT,at least for most of us means you don't dress up at home anymore right? Plus you have to grow up once again, as a new person or at least a changed person. All that takes time. I'd say just sit back and enjoy the ride. I did.
Edit Message Delete Message
Sylvia
(no login) Re: non herbal breast enhancement methods? July 10 2008, 2:54 PM
I took injections of the same stuff years ago. It was simply known generically as estradiol valerate and then somewhere around 1997 was unavailable for purchase in the US. So I switched to estinyl estradiol (Estrace) tablets, taken sublingually, and been taking that pretty much ever since.
I'm certain your doc has warned you about the risks of blood clots, and I certainly hope you don't smoke (Bad in general, but a really bad idea with massive levels of estrogen) And of course there is the recent research about a significant increase in breast cancer risk among natal women with HRT. This has me greatly concerned as TS regimens are typically about 8-10 times higher than the typical post-menopausal dose. I asked my doctor, and he just brushed it aside with a "I wouldn't worry too much about that."
So, after about 15 years on HRT, I have enough tissue essentially for a respectable B-Cup on an average frame, but on my amazonian physique, it appears more like a AA-cup unless I'm bent forward at the waist. Not thrilled with the idea of implants, so I've been researching off and on, and occasionally blowing money on sundry pills, creams, and/or gadgets. So I have a fair amount of experience, though not a whole lot of success.
Anyway, I guess my main input would be, are you taking any progestins? Either as a monthly shot of depo-provera, or using a progesterone cream? Your hormones could be out of whack otherwise.
As to other methods, I'm not sure I fully agree with your docs warnings about not mixing Rx estrogen with PEs. Estradiol is the most powerful estrogen there is, but women also have estriol and estrone as well. Then there's prolactin which in sufficient amounts will cause you to lactate, (I've had a couple rather embarrassing incidents myself) but also plays a role in breast enlargement. Pregnant/nursing mothers do experience quite a bit of breast growth, and often retain much of it afterward.
Spironolactone is great and relatively inexpensive for an anti-androgen, but my problem with it is its potassium sparing properties. I just can't do without oranges and bananas and other high-potassium foods on a regular basis. Finasteride is just way out of my budget. Saw palmetto is probably the best bet all the way around.
In any case, skip the red clover or pueraria mirifica if you're really concerned about PEs interfering with your Rx mones. But I don't think making use of fenugreek, fennel, and/or wild yam would cause too much harm, and may have some benefit. But I'm not a doctor, not your doctor, and certainly not you, so take that into consideration as well.
I think regular breast massage is a very good idea. Anything that encourages the blood to circulate and stimulate the area may help to encourage new tissue growth. Forget about the Brava/Bosom Beauty/Noogleberry/et al. These devices are also trying to stimulate tissue to encourage new growth, and some people have had success with them. Most are ghastly expensive, they're prone to break, they're inconvenient to use on a regular basis, and some create such intense suction that your breasts hurt, are swollen (not in a good way) and leave you with deep red marks all around your breasts which may lay from a few minutes to most of a day! Such intense and prolonged stretching of the tissue may cause capillaries to break and stretch out the skin encouraging sagging (something that should always be discouraged)
That's my $0.02, rambling though it may have been.
Edit Message Delete Message
SLG
(Login photofetish) yes.. July 10 2008, 3:07 PM
I totally agree. That's my two cents, or four, or six.....
Edit Message Delete Message
Fennel Fairy
(no login) Herb Free... July 10 2008, 7:52 PM
As opposed to previous poster, I would NOT recommend fennel etc because that's really weak phytos and they will compete with your injected estrogen for receptor space, weakening your overall estrogen effect. No phytoestrogens at all is what I recommend, which means avoid soy products too. There is soy hidden in a lot of ready made food so read labels.
What you CAN use:
Gelatine may play an important part in the growth of connective tissues
Collagen same as gelatine, but also helps skin firmness (prevent future sagging)
Cayenne capsules (increases circulation, and therefore estrogen distribution to breasts)
A tablespoon of coconut oil per day (helps metabolism)
Goat's Rue (a galactagogue but NOT estrogenic)- Will promote prolactin
Massage with neutral massage oil or lotion without phytos and use a heating pad after massage
Not everyone's cup of tea, but there is also:
Hypnosis (to use your subconscious mind to work for you and control body processes)
Affirmations and positive thinking (my boobs are HUGE!)
Mind over matter (watch the film THE SECRET and peel off the glossy **** and just concentrate on the core of the message. it is very inspirational and motivating if you look past the surface)
Edit Message Delete Message
Dee
(Login moonstruck61) Re: non herbal breast enhancement methods? July 14 2008, 12:43 AM
Thank you all, I will try to get back later and address the various replies soon.
I AM under the care and supervision of a doctor and I do have a legal and legit prescription for Delestrogen and Spironolactone. I am well aware of the health risks involved and that is why I sought out a doctor that is experienced in and specializes in transgender women.
Of all the options available, injectable estrogen is the lowest risk for DVT and other bad things.
And no, I DO NOT smoke. So that's not an issue at all. I won't even get within 20 feet of someone that smokes. :-/
Thanks!