[bryony]

Also I know damn well my random erections, or lack thereof are a cause of PM, no doubt about it, but I know that I don't need a break. I've missed doses of PM before, one time for only a day and I noticed a huge change in my mood/attitude. It's my personal belief at this point that estrogen of some form is necessary to keep me balanced between my body/mind/desires/etc.

So until PM stops me from enjoying sexual activities with my partner, or serious side effects start taking place, I don't see any reason to stop taking it.

I'm not trying to spook you, dear! Just keep a look out for any changes, that's all. I think we all have reason now to be careful.

As for me, it's been 19 hours since my last dose, and very little has changed, so far.

B.

[Isabelle]

Hi bryony and blackwings76,

Depending on how strong the extract is, 50 mg isoflavones could be a very high dose. For instance: we recently concluded that the miroestrol content in PM is about 100 parts per million (ppm). Suppose you take 50 mg of pure miroestrol: that is equivalent to 500 g PM dried herb!

[dargona]

Also when taking a small break before: I noticed the desires such as cross-dressing came back, as did the urges to masturbate, and watch porn (this mirrors Sfem's experience) . On top of this: I also gave MORE attention to my breasts in a negative way -- I hawk-eyed them expecting miracle growth or looked at them with some disbelief (as to if they would grow to the size I wanted or have the appearance I was looking to attain -- not disbelief that they should be there *for clarification*).

While on PM: I don't have my breasts in mind, or my penis, or where I'm going to have sex next and how it's going down, etc etc. I mean occasionally if I'm in the proper mood I can and will think about each of these individually but for the most part my daily thought process is now focused on other things.

[bryony]

Also when taking a small break before: I noticed the desires such as cross-dressing came back, as did the urges to masturbate, and watch porn (this mirrors Sfem's experience) . On top of this: I also gave MORE attention to my breasts in a negative way -- I hawk-eyed them expecting miracle growth or looked at them with some disbelief (as to if they would grow to the size I wanted or have the appearance I was looking to attain -- not disbelief that they should be there *for clarification*).

While on PM: I don't have my breasts in mind, or my penis, or where I'm going to have sex next and how it's going down, etc etc. I mean occasionally if I'm in the proper mood I can and will think about each of these individually but for the most part my daily thought process is now focused on other things.

Yes, these are all the same reasons why I take it.

I hope you will agree, however, that if your mind started to dwell on the possibility of GRS, it would be worthwhile taking a break? Hypothetically?

From what you've said, I think that my TS brain may be further over to the female side than you. I've no doubt that if my wife had been disposed to let me live as a female, and that if I had been convincing, rather than the ugly dog that I am, that heavy use of PM would have sent me down the same path as Beverley.

This is really the purpose of my experiment. I see the one week's suffering per month as the "cold shower" / reality check that will prevent that happening.

(Apart from anything else, a monthly return to morning erections will prevent the old todger from shrivelling away! )


B.

[bryony]

Hi bryony and blackwings76,

Depending on how strong the extract is, 50 mg isoflavones could be a very high dose. For instance: we recently concluded that the miroestrol content in PM is about 100 parts per million (ppm). Suppose you take 50 mg of pure miroestrol: that is equivalent to 500 g PM dried herb!

I knew you were the right one to ask!

But what are the relative efficacies of isoflavones vs miroestrol? Didn't you once mention that the deoxymiroestrol metabolite was much more efficacious?

B.

[Isabelle]

Well, that depends on what the isoflavones are from. Those from soy, genistein and daidzein, are supposed to be weak ones. But I don't believe in weak phyto-estrogens any more. Activating a receptor is activating a receptor, period. Different assays give different results on relative strengths. What does matter in observed relative strength is the metabolism rate: a short lived phyto-estrogen will not perform in a long test. And soy and flax contain such high amounts of phyto-estrogens, that many experiments are done with stalling doses, which makes them look like they perform poorly.

[dargona]

Also when taking a small break before: I noticed the desires such as cross-dressing came back, as did the urges to masturbate, and watch porn (this mirrors Sfem's experience) . On top of this: I also gave MORE attention to my breasts in a negative way -- I hawk-eyed them expecting miracle growth or looked at them with some disbelief (as to if they would grow to the size I wanted or have the appearance I was looking to attain -- not disbelief that they should be there *for clarification*).

While on PM: I don't have my breasts in mind, or my penis, or where I'm going to have sex next and how it's going down, etc etc. I mean occasionally if I'm in the proper mood I can and will think about each of these individually but for the most part my daily thought process is now focused on other things.

Yes, these are all the same reasons why I take it.

I hope you will agree, however, that if your mind started to dwell on the possibility of GRS, it would be worthwhile taking a break? Hypothetically?

From what you've said, I think that my TS brain may be further over to the female side than you. I've no doubt that if my wife had been disposed to let me live as a female, and that if I had been convincing, rather than the ugly dog that I am, that heavy use of PM would have sent me down the same path as Beverley.

This is really the purpose of my experiment. I see the one week's suffering per month as the "cold shower" / reality check that will prevent that happening.

(Apart from anything else, a monthly return to morning erections will prevent the old todger from shrivelling away! )


B.

by GRS do you mean genital reconstructive surgery? If so then I will be honest when it comes to this topic because I've given great and deep thought to this which is why it was difficult for me to come to a conclusion about what I wanted to pursue:

1.) I want my penis, there has never been a moment in my life when I honestly thought I would be better off without it.

2.) Having a vagina is of some interest to me (I wouldn't mind having one), however this usually involves the contradiction of case 1 above.

3.) Orchiectomy -- probably going to happen some day in my life as I have given thought to this, but only when I know I'm done having children. Of course this also brings on the debate of balancing Testosterone/Estrogen so at this point I'm probably going to have to consult with therapists/doctors and whatever is necessary to maintain the level of balance in which I'm now happy with.

Regarding all 3 of the cases above: it took me a good month after initially opening up to my wife before I finally realized that if I had been born hermaphrodite, with a more feminine-than-masculine appearance, it would be about the closest thing possible to representing how I've always felt.

This is why I feel I may have a completely different situation to deal with when compared to other TS/TG, I have never heard of anybody wanting to be hermaphrodite but honestly I've always wanted this on the inside, and will admit I used to love watching hermaphrodite porn and fantasizing about living that life (when I watched a lot more porn that is, heh!).

[dargona]

case 3 adjustment: I don't know the proper medical term for it but the orch. procedure is to remove the testicles only, but I wouldn't mind either having the scrotum? removed as well or if case 2 happened to be a real possibility then put towards that.

[bryony]

by GRS do you mean genital reconstructive surgery? If so then I will be honest when it comes to this topic because I've given great and deep thought to this which is why it was difficult for me to come to a conclusion about what I wanted to pursue:

1.) I want my penis, there has never been a moment in my life when I honestly thought I would be better off without it.

2.) Having a vagina is of some interest to me (I wouldn't mind having one), however this usually involves the contradiction of case 1 above.

Hmm. Did this seem more or less interesting after being on PM?

(I don't know if you want comments in return - please tell me if you don't - I guess I just can't stop poking my nose in..)

Despite the much loved Japanese concept of futanari, I don't see how one could be constructed without interfering with concept 1 either!

As I've said before, a vagina is really only useful if you want penetrative sex, and whilst this could be obtained with the use of toys, the temptation to try the real thing could lead to serious marriage problems.

Seems like a big risk to me.

3.) Orchiectomy -- probably going to happen some day in my life as I have given thought to this, but only when I know I'm done having children. Of course this also brings on the debate of balancing Testosterone/Estrogen so at this point I'm probably going to have to consult with therapists/doctors and whatever is necessary to maintain the level of balance in which I'm now happy with.

Another candidate for a cost-benefit analysis... It's a long way off anyway, but I'm a strong believer in "if it aint broke, don't fix it". If you can be happy with what you achieve through PM and a good relationship with a loving family, why risk the good striving for perfection?

I'm not trying to start an argument or debate, so this is a rhetorical question for you to ponder when you come to make this decision:If you get caught up using big pharma hormones, you would be risking your health, possibly your life, possibly your marriage, and for what, really?

I sometimes feel it's my role in life to challenge other people's ideas, really just to make them think things through from another angle to see if there is anything that they've missed.

When I worked in IT, I was the person they went to if they wanted to know what could go wrong with a plan. I was the "black hat" - (probably due to the pessimistic nature I had developed from years of gender anxiety) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Thinking_Hats

Regarding all 3 of the cases above: it took me a good month after initially opening up to my wife before I finally realized that if I had been born hermaphrodite, with a more feminine-than-masculine appearance, it would be about the closest thing possible to representing how I've always felt.

This is why I feel I may have a completely different situation to deal with when compared to other TS/TG, I have never heard of anybody wanting to be hermaphrodite but honestly I've always wanted this on the inside, and will admit I used to love watching hermaphrodite porn and fantasizing about living that life (when I watched a lot more porn that is, heh!).

Yes - I admit the idea of being a [beautiful] woman with a functioning penis is extremely appealing, and I think is the ultimate that a TS with a happy married life could hope to be.

The problem is that the "conventional" TS community finds this anathema.

They are stuck in the mould of conventional stereotypes of male-female bodies, and just want to move from one box into the other, however unsuccessfully. The irony is that in striving for the goal of womanhood, by depriving their wives of their male love, they are committing the ultimate act of misogyny.

B.x

[dargona]

I don't believe that being on PM has changed, for better or for worse, my interest in having a vagina to be honest: I've always 'wanted' one even before PM, but not at the loss of my penis.

You mention cost vs risk which is something that I left out of the equation: Yes cost can be a huge factor involved in any GRS/SRS, but even if I had the money and had a 100% that nothing would go wrong, I still wouldn't put myself through full transition. I feel as though doing so would then flip my gender problems around, where I would feel incomplete without my male characteristics and parts. Then I would be in the same but opposite position that I'm in now...

...And on top of that, I would have other social factors, limits, and hurdles to get over; forcing myself to get through a landslide of changes all at once, whereas right now I am able to feminize at a rate suitable to my needs/desires. For instance: I've worn makeup a few times in my life and very briefly tried to achieve a feminine voice, and I've attempted to walk/act lady-like. Some of these attempts were long, long before PM (pre-teen and teen years) and some are now current.

My ultimate goal would be to have the ability to interchange my appearance, clothes, style, voice, and basically anything else gender related rather seamlessly. This may be impossible, but it might be possible through lots of dedication and hard work. This is something I just don't have the time to work on all at once in my life's schedule, but over time I plan to make small steps of progress to reach this goal.

[edit]
I feel that it's a good idea for clarification purposes that my ultimate physical appearance goal is either that of appearing mostly female physically (After all: I am trying to grow medium to large sized breasts) or in the middle at minimum. I've lived my life as a feminine man (friends, family, work, school), and as said before I've already publicly displayed that without shame, but I haven't had breast tissue until recently.

I'm guessing that men with a desire for breasts and actually having them is basically unheard of in our society aside from the small online social gatherings in which we've formed. It's new territory and I don't expect that it's going to be an easy concept to live out. At the same time I've put myself through the paces, the logic, the reasoning, the long, put-off and mentally crushing "coming-out" phase (to my wife and close friends for now) that many people with a GI sometimes keep hidden all of their lives. I'm sure there are already cases of men who have carried out partly similar lifestyles somewhere in the world (Thailand, Iran, India), but it's definitely not common enough (maybe even less common than full-transitioners?) enough here to be considered normal
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