[bryony]

I think the issue of determining mental health is complex due to individual variances.

Agreed!

...
My primary concern with labeling sexuality, gender identity or anything else as mentally ill is the danger intolerant individuals will use this as leverage to exert socio-political control over those they consider to be deviant.

That may have been a danger in the past, but I think we're way past that stage and into the other side, where we have the mirror image problem... almost like anorexics refusing to acknowledge they are underweight "I look just fine... in fact I'm too fat".

I don't know about you, but my GID has caused me to experience:
Anxiety Disorder
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
Dysthymia (which Wikipedia says is "also known as neurotic depression, is a mood disorder consisting of chronic depression, with less severe but longer lasting symptoms than major depressive disorder")

Admittedly I have never seen a therapist for a diagnosis, but I wouldn't need to be officially diagnosed for a compound fracture either!

Given that Estrogen removed all of these symptoms, it is safe to say that these mental disorders were symptomatic of GID which I think we can thus deduce is a form of mental disorder, which can only be corrected in my case by adjusting my hormonal balance so that it does not match my genetic gender.

Now. My point is this. To me it seems clear that my condition exists in a spectrum, ranging from an inconvenient "wish I'd been born a girl, but I can live with it... but if I can grow boobs I'll feel a bit better", (with very little interest in boys except as friends and a desire to have a sexual relationship with a girl) to an extreme "mummy I'm in the wrong body" from the age of five, (no interest in girls except as friends, crushes on boys and an intense desire to be female in every sense of the word.)

People like me, at the less extreme end of the spectrum, are discontented most of their life, but when full strength testosterone kicks in, raging male desires, ambition, agression, lust, parenthood all take first place, with a niggling desire to cross-dress in the background.

Towards late middle age, when testosterone diminishes, retirement happens, kids leave home, the old niggles come back in full flood (this is documented on Anne Vitale's website) and, very often, such individuals start to transition.

The key point is that they do this because they think it is the only way and the alternative is suicide or at best a life of severe depression.

This is where my unease about the new orthodoxy of political correctness causing as much harm as good comes in; because I think there is now more pressure for such individuals to transition than to seek an accommodation through hormone treatment, and that this has been caused by a desire to see transition as a guilt-free alternative lifestyle as valid as any other (which I don't necessarily dispute) and that using hormones to be able to cope with continuing to present as male will one day become as much an anathema as the idea of enabling homosexuals to function in a heterosexual relationship (which I don't really want to progress except possibly as another interesting discussion).

The reason I see this as harmful is only in the case of sufferers who are married, maybe with children, who have been quite happy, hitherto, to use their male function in an otherwise happy relationship.

These poor souls risk and very often lose their families, and their wives certainly lose the husbands they married. A lesbian relationship with a new "wife" was not, in most cases, what they signed up for.

Combine this with the possibility that a regular dosage of estrogen takes away from some sufferers every desire and satisfaction that caused them to transition in the first place and these people are left with nothing: the kind of situation that can provoke suicide.

I am so very, very lucky to have discovered PM. A relatively safe solution, that allows me to cope with my situation. I cannot get it out of my head that there could be many, many people less lucky than me, being advised from a medical orthodoxy / politically correct viewpoint, to move forward with transitioning when they may not need to.

I think this is a separate issue of whether homosexuals, transgender, etc, consider themselves as mentally ill. I think when the behavior or emotion (i.e.) gender dysphoria, becomes problematic to the point it continually interferes or impairs the quality of daily life is when it can be regarded as a mental disorder. This isn't a black and white definition you're asking for, but I think it's a good standard to assess whether someone really needs help or not.

The problem with that is you are passing over self-diagnosis to individuals, many of whom may not have the ability or level of self analysis to be able to do it. I'll address this further later on.

If homosexuality is a mental illness because gay people are unable to reproduce, would the same standard apply to those who voluntarily choose to be celibate or heterosexual couples who can have children but decide not to?

My point was that, being animals first and foremost, anything which prevents you breeding means that your genes will not be passed down, which is against evolution, survival of the fittest etc. and must by definition be deemed a disorder (rather than "illness"). Infertility is a disorder; choosing not to, in an overpopulated world? Probably not, though the conditions that govern that choice may well be due to a disorder. As a loving parent, I am predisposed to think that losing the experience of parenthood would make me less of a person, and I would hate to grow old without seeing a young family thriving - circle of life sort of thing.

Just to set the record straight, (pardon the pun) as an adolescent at an all-boys school my first sexual "gropings" were with other boys, so I'm not anything ending in -phobe.

Yes, pm has made changes with my mental state but not in the area of personal judgment.

I don't see how you can be categorical about that, unless your dysphoria was much milder than what I experienced. If you are significantly younger, then it may well be so. I only started on my steep downhill slide after the age of 50 or so.

If you were suffering from a lack of judgement, how would be able to judge it?

I don't think anyone who has gender dysphoria should feel that full transition is the only solution. I don't think you're a fantasist because you don't want to fully transition. I think individuals have all sorts of reasons for choosing or not choosing to fully transition. In my opinion it's a very personal decision.

Yes - as long as it only affects the person taking the decision. But decisions have consequences!

The decisions to marry with the promises made, to have children whose lives depend on you, to create a family who love the husband/father image - It isn't sufficient to say "I made a mistake, I shouldn't have done it" while there are other options.

If an unattached person had GID, and feel that they can pass, then I'm all for it. If situations in my day had been different, I would very likely have done it. But one of the many things that prove love is sacrifice. I personally could never do anything to harm my loved ones. The main reason that I take PM is to make myself a better person for them.

I'm not offended by you sharing your thoughts Bryony.

Well, you have your thoughts, and I have mine. Hopefully we both gain by sharing them, and I welcome the opportunity to bounce ideas

I do feel that I am a modern-day heretic, but if it puts me in the company of people like Galileo and the victims of Lysenko, I'm proud to be one.

Anyway, I thank you for being a willing participant in this discourse. I'm happy to continue it, but I'd understand if you've had enough by now

Don't feel the need to be polite!

B.

[sfem]

Byrony, how do you feel about your posts if you were to go through them and everywhere you used the word disorder, replace it with variation? Because the disorder word carries all the things with it that make this kind of judgement wrong. The word disorder reinforces the right verus wrong component of the argument. Genetically, a disorder would be something that prevents or impairs survival of the organism. A variation may or may not preseve the status quo, including "breeding true".

[flamesabers]

Admittedly I have never seen a therapist for a diagnosis, but I wouldn't need to be officially diagnosed for a compound fracture either!

I'm perplexed as to how you say can this and then go on to make the point:

The problem with that is you are passing over self-diagnosis to individuals, many of whom may not have the ability or level of self analysis to be able to do it.

I think there's a significant difference between doing an accurate self-diagnosis and knowing there's something wrong going on. I think it's much like the difference of feeling pain versus knowing what is actually causing the pain.

Yes, pm has made changes with my mental state but not in the area of personal judgment.

I don't see how you can be categorical about that, unless your dysphoria was much milder than what I experienced. If you are significantly younger, then it may well be so.

I compartmentalize. For me there is a numerous aspects of my life that are gender neutral so it's not like I have to choose between pursuing my life's dreams versus resolving my gender dysphoria. I never had much of any interest in having children. As far as finding a wife, ever since I started crossdressing I knew for the relationship to work out, the woman I marry would have to at least be able to tolerate my nonconformity with traditional gender roles.

I'm 26 so I suppose that would make me much younger than you.

I also don't have a wife and children so I imagine that is another major difference between you and me.

The decisions to marry with the promises made, to have children whose lives depend on you, to create a family who love the husband/father image - It isn't sufficient to say "I made a mistake, I shouldn't have done it" while there are other options.

Maybe it's because I'm not married nor am I a parent, but who would really want to love a husband/father image that isn't genuine? I don't think the issue is whether transgender individuals can be a good spouse/parent or not, but whether it's beneficial in the long-term to be someone who you're really not.

As for reproduction being a yardstick of mental health, I hope to hell it never becomes one.

I agree with you on this sfem. My preference to not have children is not a reflection of my mental health.

Well, you have your thoughts, and I have mine. Hopefully we both gain by sharing them, and I welcome the opportunity to bounce ideas

I concur.

[bryony]

Hmm. I have stayed out of this because Byrony has expressed these sentiments before and there is nothing new or very different in this reiteration. The only thing I find offensive is your calling me mentally ill. It is your opinion and I defend your right to it, but don't expect me to agree with it or ignore it. I really didn't want to throw any fuel on this fire. But I find myself in the mood to do so this morning. Maybe it's because I have been off PM for so long now.

I think all this shows is that I am totally incapable of expressing my thoughts in a cogent enough manner to explain what I'm getting at.

I really didn't want there to be a fire to throw fuel over, and I really don't intend to be offensive. Why on earth should I be offended at the idea that there is something wrong with my brain?

Byrony, don't you think the issue is not a question of illness versus health but instead an issue of the normal human tendency to want to belong to a group? Almost every argument you raised is simply a way of saying "I am the same as everyone else, please accept me". You're saying if something different is seen about you that it can be fixed by taking a mood/mind altering substance to allow you to blend in better and cope better with the unalterable fact that genetic mutation is actually the norm, not an exception. That is the slippery slope that leads to the insecure powerful people choosing to decide for you what it is you need to join the group. Don't you realize you aren't in their group because they don't want us? We threaten their self-image. Byrony, you are not mentally ill. You just aren't in charge.

Well, did you read what I wrote in its entirety or just skim it? I think I explained reasonably well how the symptoms of various mental disorders are removed by taking estrogen. How do you explain that?

I think the problem is that the phrase "mental illness" has a lot of emotional baggage. I know that there is a lot of bad history in our respective cultures that can make this problematic. However, the evidence of a congenital brain developmental disorder, at least in my case, is too great to ignore. I even know what is most likely to have caused it, as my family history includes my mother's mental breakdown whilst pregnant with me.

The issue isn't whether boys would look bad in dresses, wigs and makeup. It's very disheartening that it gets confused with the actual issues. The issue is that those who have the means to sway public opinion make their money from creating the completely unreal ideal people images and that most definitely includes the part of the image that has to do with gender, sexuality, and the expression of those things. I am saddened to a level you probably cannot understand that you feel you have to fix yourself because you feel you wouldn't "look good" clothing yourself in a way that would make you happy.

But what is the reason why it should make me happy? And why should estrogen remove the happiness? Obviously because of my brain disorder - there is no other logical reason.

As a "higher order" animal, we use clothing the way other animals use fur and feathers (some creatures, eg hermit crab use a form of clothing). The clothing tends to accentuate the features of our sexual dimorphism, broad shoulders and narrow hips in a tuxedo, breasts and hips in dresses. It is the dimorphism that attracts animals so that they breed. It is simple biology.

I feel the same sadness for all of us. It is a far worse incrimination of our society's general lack of progress that these kinds of issues are out there and as strong as they are. For me, I am unhappy that it would incur so many negative social consequences for people that I care about that I also cannot just go around clothed in a way that would make me happy. I don't believe that means I'm ill. I don't feel a need to fix my brain as if it were broken. I am not broken.

That wasn't really the point I was trying to make. It is the development of our brain that makes us want to present as the opposite gender, and my feeling is that it is better to treat that problem than try to be something we are not.

This really wasn't aimed at you because (a) you can cope, even without the PM and (b) you have no intention of transitioning.

My whole thesis is about the way we are developing a NEW "conformity" where the pressure to conform in traditional gender roles is being replaced with pressure to conform in a new "third / fourth" gender role, even to the detriment of families

I doubt society will change enough in my lifetime to fix what is really broken, namely the concentration of social power in the hands of so few people. If the internet can manage to stay uncontrolled for just another decade or so, then maybe humanity has a chance. But the vested interests are fighting very hard to squash it as the biggest threat to the status quo they have ever faced. I wish them all a short trip on a doomed flight.

Actually I think the biggest immediate threat to humanity is a repressive totalitarian theocracy, but that's a different story!

As for reproduction being a yardstick of mental health, I hope to hell it never becomes one. Serial rapists and sultans would be the pinnacle of mental health in such a world. Monks, nuns, and others like them would be condemned for the wrong reasons.

Well, I have to think you are deliberately misinterpreting me in order to wind me up, or you have seriously misunderstood my point.

Or maybe you are religious and don't believe we are animals?

Can you seriously disagree that, in general, in the animal kingdom a condition that prevents an animal from breeding is abnormal?

Anyhow, I'm sorry to have bored you with my constant repetition of a theme, but I do try to vary it.. Look forward to future iterations!

B.

[bryony]

Well you posed some more topics, so I will respond!

Admittedly I have never seen a therapist for a diagnosis, but I wouldn't need to be officially diagnosed for a compound fracture either!

I'm perplexed as to how you say can this and then go on to make the point:

The problem with that is you are passing over self-diagnosis to individuals, many of whom may not have the ability or level of self analysis to be able to do it.

I think there's a significant difference between doing an accurate self-diagnosis and knowing there's something wrong going on. I think it's much like the difference of feeling pain versus knowing what is actually causing the pain.

Well, you have answered your own question for me. If you become aware of symptoms of mental disorder, then, yes, you can self-diagnose, but what about the people who have mental disorder who cannot self-diagnose? I come back to the anorexic, because that is the closest analogy. They think "there is nothing wrong with me, it is the world that is wrong"

Which is kind of what you and sfem are saying. But the strong desire we hold to present as females is proof positive that there is something wrong.

Much as you two seemingly want to deny it, humankind is a form of sexual animal. Sexual dimorphism is the key to breeding, without which we disappear. Our physical shape, along with pheremones, are what attracts the opposite sex so we partner up and breed.

Just because the world is full of people, and it seemingly doesn't matter if we breed anymore isn't a real reason to dismiss millenia of biology.

Much as it might comfort us to say "it isn't me, the world is wrong", I'm afraid, in biological terms, it is me, I am wrong. Note, I say in "biological" terms, not "societal" terms. In our brave new world, people can do pretty much as they want, but in my personal code of ethics, if and only if it does not hurt someone else, and this particularly important if that someone else is a loved one.

Yes, pm has made changes with my mental state but not in the area of personal judgment.

I don't see how you can be categorical about that, unless your dysphoria was much milder than what I experienced. If you are significantly younger, then it may well be so.

I compartmentalize. For me there is a numerous aspects of my life that are gender neutral so it's not like I have to choose between pursuing my life's dreams versus resolving my gender dysphoria. I never had much of any interest in having children. As far as finding a wife, ever since I started crossdressing I knew for the relationship to work out, the woman I marry would have to at least be able to tolerate my nonconformity with traditional gender roles.

I'm 26 so I suppose that would make me much younger than you.

I also don't have a wife and children so I imagine that is another major difference between you and me.
[/quote]

You're actually 1 year older than my daughter and 4 years younger than my son, so I'm not surprised that a lot of what I'm saying is lost on you!

The decisions to marry with the promises made, to have children whose lives depend on you, to create a family who love the husband/father image - It isn't sufficient to say "I made a mistake, I shouldn't have done it" while there are other options.

Maybe it's because I'm not married nor am I a parent, but who would really want to love a husband/father image that isn't genuine? I don't think the issue is whether transgender individuals can be a good spouse/parent or not, but whether it's beneficial in the long-term to be someone who you're really not.

Again, this is an area of guesswork if you haven't lived it.

[quote='sfem' pid='53057' dateline='1341325452']
As for reproduction being a yardstick of mental health, I hope to hell it never becomes one.

agree with you on this sfem. My preference to not have children is not a reflection of my mental health.

I think this is a case of "TLDR". I never said that. I replied to sfem thus: "Can you seriously disagree that, in general, in the animal kingdom a condition that prevents an animal from breeding is abnormal?

B.

[bryony]

Byrony, how do you feel about your posts if you were to go through them and everywhere you used the word disorder, replace it with variation? Because the disorder word carries all the things with it that make this kind of judgement wrong. The word disorder reinforces the right verus wrong component of the argument. Genetically, a disorder would be something that prevents or impairs survival of the organism. A variation may or may not preseve the status quo, including "breeding true".

Unfortunately, that isn't really part of what I am getting at. I've explained it in my earlier reply to you.

It just seems to me that whenever one repressive orthodoxy is destroyed another rises to replace it. In the 21st century we still have sections of society trying to legislate through peer pressure how we should behave.

It used to be that people who did not conform to cultural norms were stigmatised. These attitudes have been broken down, which was a good thing, but now subcultures have formed post-normal "norms", so that, for example, if you have a "TS brain" for want of a better description, there is a new post-normal "cultural norm" that we are expected to conform to.

My problem is that I reject such constraints. I think that the wish to conform to the old cultural norm is now the new radicalism, and that seems to be what puts people's backs up!

Enough for now!

B.

[sfem]

I think all this shows is that I am totally incapable of expressing my thoughts in a cogent enough manner to explain what I'm getting at.

I really didn't want there to be a fire to throw fuel over, and I really don't intend to be offensive. Why on earth should I be offended at the idea that there is something wrong with my brain?

I think you explained your points just fine. I had no trouble at all following what you wrote. I did not say you were offended. I also don't think there is anything wrong with your brain.

Well, did you read what I wrote in its entirety or just skim it? I think I explained reasonably well how the symptoms of various mental disorders are removed by taking estrogen. How do you explain that?

I think the problem is that the phrase "mental illness" has a lot of emotional baggage. I know that there is a lot of bad history in our respective cultures that can make this problematic. However, the evidence of a congenital brain developmental disorder, at least in my case, is too great to ignore. I even know what is most likely to have caused it, as my family history includes my mother's mental breakdown whilst pregnant with me.

Of course I read what you wrote. The fact that your mental processes can be altered by hormonal substitutes does not mean you have a disorder. It means your brain is affected by hormones, just like the rest of us. I don't see how you can expect the answer you came up with to be the only possible one. It's one theory. If this stuff were that simple and understood, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd have learned all about it in grade school. The fact is that this is complex phenomena and we don't even know what all the factors are that contribute to it, never mind how they interact.

But what is the reason why it should make me happy? And why should estrogen remove the happiness? Obviously because of my brain disorder - there is no other logical reason.

Don't you mean, no other reason you can think of or that you accept, or maybe that has even been proposed?

As a "higher order" animal, we use clothing the way other animals use fur and feathers (some creatures, eg hermit crab use a form of clothing). The clothing tends to accentuate the features of our sexual dimorphism, broad shoulders and narrow hips in a tuxedo, breasts and hips in dresses. It is the dimorphism that attracts animals so that they breed. It is simple biology.

I would suggest that since breeding behaviour happens between same sex pairs in many species, it isn't as simple as you describe. My dog has had an ongoing affair with our couch pillows for years. I don't think it means he is defective. It just means that the act and the stimulation from the act as not solely tied to reproduction. Most of the attraction you are referring to is artificial for humans. I doubt you'd find anywhere near the same level of attraction (on the mental level) among more primitive human cultures.

That wasn't really the point I was trying to make. It is the development of our brain that makes us want to present as the opposite gender, and my feeling is that it is better to treat that problem than try to be something we are not.

And my point was that this definition you are using for what is "present as the opposite gender" and "something we are not" is fatally flawed. This is old well-beaten ground. That definition changes with time, culture, demographics, and even geography. It is the stubborn insistence on defining it in some kind of absolute terms that causes almost all our gender related societal problems.

This really wasn't aimed at you because (a) you can cope, even without the PM and (b) you have no intention of transitioning.

I spoke up because it isn't "aimed" at anything or anyone even if you meant it to be. You have a point of view on this that works for you. You want to share it so others who may benefit from it can do so. I think that is very good and helpful and healthy. I do think that there is also value in bringing attention to the parts that don't necessarily hold together in my opinion.

My whole thesis is about the way we are developing a NEW "conformity" where the pressure to conform in traditional gender roles is being replaced with pressure to conform in a new "third / fourth" gender role, even to the detriment of families

This feels alarmist to me.

Well, I have to think you are deliberately misinterpreting me in order to wind me up, or you have seriously misunderstood my point.

I don't wind people up like that. Never have. I am responding to what you posted. I don't think that a lengthy discourse which I believe to have serious flaws should just be left hanging out there as if it was all good. There's just too many younger people reading forums who might think length = value/quality/truth or even just that the last word wins. You can certainly have the last word btw. I don't intend to keep this fire burning.

Or maybe you are religious and don't believe we are animals?

I usually disassociate from sites where religion becomes a discussion factor. I have a serious personal distaste for it. When religion enters a discussion, common sense and logic usually head for the hills. I am not religious in any way, sense, or form.

Can you seriously disagree that, in general, in the animal kingdom a condition that prevents an animal from breeding is abnormal?

That is somewhat misleading. I have this condition we speak of, yet I have children. No impact whatsoever to my gene pool contribution.

Anyhow, I'm sorry to have bored you with my constant repetition of a theme, but I do try to vary it.. Look forward to future iterations!

Keep varying it. Gives us something to discuss.

[Pansy-Mae]

Anyhow, I'm sorry to have bored you with my constant repetition of a theme, but I do try to vary it.. Look forward to future iterations!

Keep varying it. Gives us something to discuss.
[/quote]

Yawwwnnnn!
Sorry, but this is a totally pointless debate, with waaaaay to many words to the page, which neither of you will ever win.
For me personally, I completely switch off when ever anyone gets all passionate about the ills and evils of society ( or any other subject, I suppose). Zealots of any persuasion who want to rip apart whatever is currently bugging them and replace it with something unspecified that fits their specific view of 'right and wrong', are beyond my comprehension. Sorry, Bryony, but that's the way you come over, whether you mean it that way or not.

[Demon Lord Etna]

I love me, and am currently and constantly is search of ways to make an even better me to love even more.

[beverley.rose]

GID is not classified as a mental illness and for good reason - it is a physical illness. I have GID and I am transitioning from male to female so here is an insider's view of the process in the UK.

Like anything to do with medical issues in the UK you start at your doctor who, in this case, will refer you to a psychiatrist. The purpose of this is to ensure that you do not have a mental illness. People with a mental illness are not allowed to transition. The shrink ensures that you do actually suffer gender dysphoria and that you are not bi-polar, schizophrenic, etc. The shrink will continue to monitor you throughout your transition to ensure that you do not develop mental illness because GID sufferers are prone to depression from the social pressures put upon them.

Once you are given a clean bill of mental health you can ask to be referred to a Gender Identity Clinic (GIC). In between seeing the psychiatrist and arriving at the GIC you are expected to start your social transition - coming out to people, change of name, laser treatment for hair removal, voice therapy, etc. So Beverley is now my legal name and I have the court documents to prove it. My bank accounts are as Beverley, my tax records, car insurance, my pensions, etc. etc. I have blasted my beard with lasers and am getting electrolysis.

When you get to the GIC they interview you themselves, take blood samples and such like and send you away. If they are satisified that you are transexual as well as gender dysphoric then they will prescribe hormones at a subsequent vitist. This is not a certainity. If you cannot function socially as a female before you get to the GIC then you get no hormones but you may get counselling or other treatments to help with the gender dysphoria.

At no stage are you forced to transition. No one can make you do that.

Transexualism is an extreme form of GID caused by a flaw in the developmental process of foetal development. The brain and body are mis-matched and you do not feel comfortable in your own skin - quite literally. A large part of our behaviours are pre-programmed into us and when your brain has developed with the female preferences dominant and you are then forced into a male social role because of your physical appearance then you become dysphoric. All this 'female brain in a male body' stuff is 2/3 cliche (there is something to it) but the major factor is being forced into a life role that you simply detest because you are permanently uncomfortable every day of your life.

Hormones, name changes and so forth are actually quite minor aspects of transitioning. The really, really hard thing is learning female social roles that I was excluded from as I grew up because I was excluded from the female side of society. The biggest surprise I have found is how women treat me. My voice has become feminine enough that I get 'Madam' on the phone from cold callers. In everyday face-to-face interactions, as soon as women hear my voice their behaviour towards me changes. It becomes much more open and unguarded and they share emotions and feelings and ask me things that I never expect. As female, my emotional state (and theirs) is standard conversation as are very personal issues, both theirs and mine. How I feel is important to them - and vice versa.

Hormones simply alter my body physically so that my overall appearance is more feminine and thus make it easier for me to be socially female. If you cannot do the social role then there is no point to hormones and you will not get them. By the time you turn up at the GIC it had better be clear to them that you are working d*mn hard at being female 24/7 and that it is not driving you crazy in the process. If they decide that you cannot function socially as female then you will never get a sniff of hormones.

I have already socially transitioned. My body will catch up eventually in a few years time.

One final point - the spouse and family. Kids, by and large, rarely drop their relationship with a trans-parent. All the TS's I know who have kids have no real problems with their kids although some children take it better than others, but that is life. Wives vary and the bulk of them do not take it well especially if the marriage was not 100% comfortable to start with and many marriages have a lot of flaws to start with. Some wives who have been married 20 or 30 years and who themselves may be reaching menopause, decide that a loving relationship is more important than a sexual one. The number of such wives is higher than I expected and in my own MTF support group about 1/3 of the people are still in their existing relationships. Some menopausal women are relieved to get a reduction in their sex lives so doom and gloom is not guaranteed. If you want to keep your wife then you must slow your transition to suit her and involve her in your decisions so that she has a say too. It makes a difference.

The thread topic was 'Do you like you?' and the answer is 'Yes - more than ever before'. Other people like me more too because I am more settled within myself. In spite of all the hardships and trials and tribulations caused by my transition I am completely happy. I can finally live in a role that is consistent with how I feel I should act and live and I can now truly be myself.

Beverley