Another toxic "friend" gone. This one's convinced I'm unhinged and need immediate and intense psychotherapy because all that science I linked is totally quack and her unsubstantiated claims that too much E directly and for the long term increases T just HAS to be right!! CUZ SOME DOCTORS SAID SO!!
Abigail: Meh. Even if and when I ever see a doctor I doubt I'll go on conventional HRT. Spiro has some insane health implications...
8 hours ago • Like
Audrey: On a 1-2% risk... But still that's why you have an endo... To monitor that stuff... An there other pill options... Also for something so important seems far riskier to do it on your own...
8 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: That's understated by a lot. And I've done substantial research into both conventional regimes and many many many less conventional herbs and other drugs. What I'm using atm has virtually no risk.
8 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Btw, read your post... Seems like one of your sisters is struggling with you... Sorry to hear that. Also, got to say, an don't take this the wrong way, but you've got to stop making excuses for yourself... We've got a very similar situation... Both live with our parents... Each have a difficult parent... Both of us are unemployed... I think we're both in school... An perhaps I do look more fem... But I'm not so sure about that... We both have maintain our bodies.. I'd say you've an advantage with whatever form of HRT you're on... But seriously you can't let those things stop you. Worrying over that... That's why your failing... Whether you'd admit it or not... And although I'm not much older than you... barely 2 years... Just trying to give ya some advice and also help ya in today's difficult world and although you don't need someone else to be hard on you... Someone who is in a very similar situation being a tiny bit hard on ya may be more helpful!
8 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Not in school atm... Ran out of money and although I do like it it's not quite totally my thing... just not enough passion in it. I do plan to finish anyways though and maybe find some way to use it. And what excuses? I told her she's being toxic and I don't need that. My new status is just informing anyone else who wants to be toxic that now's the time to go down in a blaze of glory.
8 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Yes well, while you're dabbling around with that, doing research that has little to no empirical/scientific backing... Getting results that may be mixed at best.. Remember, the doctors are the experts, not you. So unless you're getting a phd in that stuff it's really best left to the pros... Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you what to do, just encouraging proper procedure....
8 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Uh-huh. Hey, if the koolaid and tea helps you sleep at night... (and yes, this is a political reference)
8 hours ago • Edited • Like
Abigail: Given that it was a medical encyclopedia that caused me to self-hypnotise myself as a toddler I have a VERY healthy skepticism of doctors.
8 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Excuses for not getting a job... Over how you look ect ect... I get the struggles just as much as you do... But you can't let that stop you... Living how your living doesn't seem ideal for you... Worse than I am, and even my situation isn't ideal.... And we both have our reasons for not being able to be out on our own... Different I'm sure... But for my part it's because I fucked up financially years ago (over $15k in credit card debt) and I'm still recovering from it legally... if it wasn't for that and my lack of job of course, but that should be remedied soon I hope, so if it wasn't for that I'd be on my own....
8 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Yeah... well. Honestly I don't even want a job. I do need to figure out how to get some seed money to continue researching making my dieting stuff but that's what I want to do. And then some seed money to develop it into actual products and then sell them... That's what I want to do.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: Getting a job would end that. 4-6 hours getting ready for work, work for 4-8 hours a day at least, eat, wash up, sleep, get up and do it again.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: Can't ask my parents to help with it, even if I promised them a share. They would never think I could make it work.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Skeptic of the medical system... They are there to help you... Not make it worse.... And again self diagnosis isn't very good... Self hypno... That's a risk... How do you know you didn't mess up...just can't take matters into ones hands like that...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: the self hypno is how I hid for around 2 decades. Did it as a toddler. With part of my subconscious forced into maintaining it. Really was a nasty piece of work. Nearly led to me killing myself through inactivity towards the end of it.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: 4-6hrs to get ready?!?!? Jeez girl how in the hell does it take that long?!?! No tgirl takes that long unless they doing something wrong all the time or doing too much! 4-6hts on a daily basis is insane....
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: hair.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: at least 3 hours of that is spent on removing hair.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: You have got be exaggerating!
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: as it is I still always miss something somewhere.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: LOL... Wish I was... But there's not an inch of this body that doesn't have at least a dozen or so hairs growing out of it.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: and they grow in all kinds of crazy directions
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Dude I'm in the shower for 30min... 45 tops... Spend 30min or so doing body lotion and makeup... All n all usually 1.5hrs to get ready
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Audrey: Yeah I get that
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: that'd give you no more than 20 minutes 30 minutes at best to shave anything you're going to shave. either you don't have much hair or you don't even bother shaving most of it.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: or it all grows in basically only a few directions so you're not constantly going over the same area from 6 different directions.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: I have body hair too... And I take care of my chest, tummy, face daily... Legs, back, arms, bum, crotch on a rotation as the growth cycle is different for each area.... Seldom do I have to do it all at once and certainly not daily! Even a natal girl would not do it daily
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Legs and about 3/4ths of my arms I could get away with every other day. Groin up and down a quarter of each arm HAS to be daily. And that's a massive reduction in growth rate compared to how it was.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: Before my herbal regimen I could shave that everything in the morning and by noon look like a gorilla.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Yeah exaggeration...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: LOL... It really isn't...
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Hardly a gorilla... So much for your realist ideology haha
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Think what you like I obviously can't prove it now!
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: Oh, I could prove I could look like a gorilla but you'd have to give me a couple weeks.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: with the obvious exception of the front of my neck, which has been lasered off.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Regardless 4-6 hrs is insane... Either you need to kick yourself in the ass and move faster or your lolly gagging during that time...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Audrey: Exactly, a few weeks... Without any maintenance!
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Used to take me even longer... But trying to get the shaving down below 3 hours is proving impossible.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: TO LOOK LIKE A GORILLA!!!!
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: I'd totally look like a hairy ass man in 3 days or less
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: About the 14-16 hour mark I'd have take a razor again to my face/neck if I were to stay out in public
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Audrey: Just because I feel the growth and stubble that bad....
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: heh. sounds about like where I am now. Maybe a bit worse. Back at Uni, I went to a BYU, and we had strict facial hair rules... I shaved IMMEDIATELY before trying to take a test and was told I needed to shave before taking my test.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: I AM NOT KIDDING YOU
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Then your technique is flawed... No one should be taking that long to shave or get ready... Sounds worse than someone who has OCD...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: and that's facial hair, which is actually growing slower than my torso!
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: So how many directions does a one inch patch of your hair grow in?
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: You, of all people, a realist, should realize this...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: If it is I sure hell haven't found anything better.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: At least 4 here. And that's in the more tame regions. Some regions it's as many as ten.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: And again this is where having, what you called conventional HRT, would be better for you... Controlling or curbing that growth better...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Audrey: My body grows in every which direction...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Doubtful. Spearmint has been clinically proven more effective at minimizing hair growth than any of the prescription anti androgens. Not at decreasing serum T though... But that's part of what the chinese skullcap helps fill in for.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: I'd be very curious to get tested to find out where my serum t is...
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Hon, I'm sorry, you've got some underlying issues going on there... This is where a therapist would come in... Your in denial about it, probably stubborn too lol... And hell for all you know your body could be producing more T than you know because if your body produces to much E or has too much E it gets converted into T... So that could happening to you without you knowing since you've not gotten blood tests to check your levels....
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: I also wish I could get access to herb research that's currently locked behind "pay me to open me" doors.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: LOL... E does NOT EVER get converted back to T. That's a one way street my friend.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Yes it does
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Audrey: Whom ever told you that or wherever you read, is wrong that is fact
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Audrey: The body will convert it to T if there is too much E
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Uhuh. I ain't EVER seen a steroidogenesis chart with arrows pointing back to T from E.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: but hey, I'll humor you and see if I can find ANYTHING from a remotely reputably source that says it does happen.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Yea and it seems like you've not spoke to doctors too...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Right... Doctors... taught and paid to sell you drugs for big pharma.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: anyway, I'm looking. This may take a while so sit back and relax.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Dr's are more than just a place to scripts from...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: I'm afraid my experience with doctors leads me to greatly distrust them. They're always treating symptoms and not even bothering searching for causes.
7 hours ago • Like
Abigail: But quit distracting me! I'm studying here!
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Oh great your a conspiracy theorist too... Lol your almost too much
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Audrey: Hope your not a hypochondriac too
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: It's only theory when it's not playing out in front of your very eyes...
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Lack of trust and faith in a dr to do their job... I'd say you've seen the wrong dr's
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: And no. I'm quite healthy right now thank you. It's taken a lot of work and a lot of study and a lot of experimentation that was at times a little risky, but I've finally gotten pretty damn healthy. No thanks to any doctors who only wanted to drug me up for various symptoms and not treat any underlying cause.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Like I said you've got some serious unhealthy underlying issues going on....
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Nope. I just stopped drinking the tea and koolaid and learned a bit too much.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Bbaaahhh, I'm ignorant about a great deal however your ignorance is far exceeding my own lol... It's great you're physically healthy now, but I'd say mentally you've got a long way to go... You seem rather stable mentally hormone wise but in a lot of other areas quite unstable...
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: The ONLY thing I'm seeing about E becoming T AT ALL is some stupid comment on Susan's.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: Haha if that were the case hon, you'd have an advanced degree of some sorts maybe even a dr yourself
7 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: And otherwise there's a smattering of people asking elsewhere and being told that's a joke. And as far as scholar goes........ total blank. Lots and lots about T to E. But totally NOTHING the opposite way.
7 hours ago • Like
Audrey: So your short amounts of research didn't pay off... Which is sad... However, since the doubter in you would tell me where is my proof when I quote what I've heard dr's tell me and what I've heard friends WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH IT have told me, word of m...See More
4 hours ago via mobile • Like
Nicole: Audrey are you talking about PCOS? my daughter and cousin have this and the doctor told us her estrogen was being converted to testosterone.
4 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: aromatase doesn't convert back to testosterone by ANY research I've ever seen... Third and fourth links don't even mention this at all, first is just a stupid form thing that means nothing really and the second seems to indicate it MIGHT happen as a result of a negative feedback loop but even that looks rather... odd... to try to read it in that light.
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: @ Nicole: Ah, now THAT is a different beast altogether... and... I'm afraid the doctor was oversimplifying something far more complex than that.
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: There's no way I can even begin to go into what's actually going on with PCOS in this setting though.
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: If it actually worked that way why aren't the doctors just stuffing trans men full of estrogen instead of prescribing usually just testosterone and occasionally an ANTI AROMATASE
4 hours ago • Edited • Like
Abigail: And noooo. MOST steroidogenesis is a process of breaking more complex chains down to simpler chains. there's two very major total dead ends. Estriol for females and dihydrotestosterone for males. Once it reaches either of those there is NO going back to ANYTHING else. And once a steroid has been aromatized to an estrogen it can't ever be an androgen ever again. and once progesterone has become an androgen it can never ever become progesterone again. and once... You clearly have ZERO understanding of how steroidogenesis works.
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: Ah! HERE'S one that does make sense! "If a distinct increase in serum estradiol is sustained for approximately 36 hours (1), a positive feedback becomes manifest, this promote the excretion of GnRH results in LH surge that causes testosterone production to increase temporary, after that the level drop back to normal. When steady level of serum estradial is maintained, and if the level is sufficient to manifest as negative feedback, then the secretion of GnRH will be suppressed (2) , result in lower LH level which reduce testosterone production."
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: ok, I can buy that one. it's only temporary though...
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: But it doesn't really matter anyways, I'm not using any form of human estrogen, I'm using a plant-source estrogen mimic which strongly binds and behaves even more strongly than estradiol in certain ways while not behaving at all like it in other ways. There's lots of research on the chemicals in the extract I'm using and I have read all of it. The things I'm still learning about it now are things no one else has actually put together coherently before... Like that it's actually got a 3-beta-HSD inhibitor in it. That's a very specifically targeted anti-androgen btw.
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: Oh. Also found out it's great for preventing alzheimers
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: that was a pretty nifty find
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: ask your doc when you finally see one if any of the stuff I'm saying makes ANY sense at all, don't mention that we're talking about herbs though because 99% of doctors are conditioned to reject herbs outright by the corporate masters.
4 hours ago • Like
Abigail: actually you know what. don't mention it's about herbs until AFTER he's talked for a while. if he talks. that should prove to you that docs are conditioned to sell only big pharma
4 hours ago • Like
Audrey: .... Blah like talking to a brick wall... Your research to me is meaningless with out scientific, empirical, medical backing! I've credited two empirical sources possibly a third... I cannot recall right now and... And by you not finding what I could find in those tells me you didn't read closely enough... And your lack of faith in docs and conspiracy that they all want to feed big pharma is disturbing... It's medically unethical to just prescribe drugs... They are the expert for a reason. It's nice to do your own research but save the big decision for the pros. And unless you empirical proof, meaning from scholars, your knowledge is meaningless and you just come off as some smart ass teenage who thinks they know it all! I know I don't know it all, but what I do stand by is the scientific method!
2 hours ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: Extract for me the meaningful parts. Please. enlighten me. The first link doesn't count, it's just a patient waiver piece of bs nonsense that somehow managed to slip in at least one massive overstatement for the purposes of scare tactics.
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: granted I only paid attention to the remotely related parts so I could have missed some other blatant bs.
about an hour ago • Like
Audrey: It is not non-bs that is an informed consent form!!! Dr's medically bound to them! They talk of the risks doing this! It's flat out proof! This CAN or WILL happen! Good lord I feel like I'm talking to a child....
about an hour ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: No you're talking to someone who's more informed than that consent form... but let's pretend that piece of paper means something. now lets find out HOW this happens... So... How does this happen?
about an hour ago • Like
Audrey: Nicole, I wasn't specifically looking for that, just I know too much of one hormone can product the opposite. It works both ways, its not exactly healthy for you... Can come with serious medical side effects. Which is why HRT is best left to the professionals. I'd never tell someone not to do what they need to do but I wouldn't encourage it either!
about an hour ago via mobile • Like
Abigail: ... Too much P could theoretically produce more T and E. Too much T could quite probably produce more E. But too much E?? Just shuts everything down eventually.
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: I didn't say too much E didn't have it's risk. But there's a difference between a real scientifically and medically proven risk and nonsense scare tactics.
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: But please. Enlighten me. Which of those other links describes what's happening to make T from E.
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: That second link certainly doesn't look remotely accredited to me though...
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: A wealth of articles referring to how large amounts of estradiol can spike GnRH:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar...
estradiol increase gnrh - Google Scholar
scholar.google.com
about an hour ago • Like • Remove Preview
Abigail: accredited link between the GnRH surge and an LH surge:
http://endo.endojournals.org/content/129/3/1175.short
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: a VERY loose link between LH surge and testosterone rising:
http://endo.endojournals.org/content/101/2/421.short
The Influence of Mating and Related Stimuli on Plasma Levels of Luteinizing Hormone, Follicle...
endo.endojournals.org
Male rats were exposed to several stimuli associated with mating, and their rest...See More
about an hour ago • Like • Remove Preview
Abigail: many articles stating strong link with high sustained E2 and GnRH suppression:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar...
estradiol gnrh negative feedback - Google Scholar
scholar.google.com
about an hour ago • Like • Remove Preview
Abigail: and obviously if gnrh releases lh, then no gnrh == no lh
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: no lh == no testosterone.
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: Please by all means find something to debunk ALL of that.
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: mind you it must be accredited.
about an hour ago • Like
Abigail: honestly the causality for the brief surge is far more far fetched than the one for a permanent depression after.
about an hour ago • Like
And meanwhile side exhibit:
Abigail
You know. I get really tired of people telling me I don't know anything because I lack this or that or this other qualification and then turning around and proving their own total ignorance about what they're telling me I don't know about. You want to tell me I'm wrong about something I've already thoroughly researched? You'd better be prepared to back that up with something meaty and don't expect me to back it up for you with very circumstantial reference material at best which only amounts to telling me that MAYBE there's a research point there if I felt it merited enough consideration to bother myself with... And then the only thing I find that backs you up even a little IS circumstantial AND nothing relevant?! Yeah. Put up or shut up.
Same goes for things I'm actually experiencing for real or have put myself through in the past. Actually, with that there ain't even room for putting up. I'm the one living my life. Those're MY experie...See More
Like · · Share · Promote · 3 hours ago near Toledo ·
Audrey: · 6 mutual friends
Gee I feel like some of this is directed towards me without you being that direct. I mean if it is, at least have courage to call me out on it. Furthermore, if it is about me, I presented at least TWO sources, thought think more, that are based off act...See More
2 hours ago via mobile · Like
Abigail: Really? So a patient signing thingy is an accredited source? And the only other one that even mentioned any sort of backwards link at all was hardly accredited and by the only accredited research I could find quickly they had it bass ackwards. Oh. ...See More
2 hours ago · Like
Abigail: And if that didn't make any sense to you you are in ZERO position to try to out research me.
2 hours ago · Like
Abigail: But hey. Keep it up. Go right ahead.
2 hours ago · Like
Abigail: So yeah Audrey. I'll be expecting your irrefutable proof that I'm wrong and that there's a definite permanent increase in T from too much E... Or your apology for your massive abuse against me on the topic. And all the other times you've accused me ...See More
about an hour ago · Like
Audrey: First of all, there is next to no irrefutable proof for anything in science, theories and hypotheses are constantly evolving.... secondly I've not been abusive. So that accusation is hysterical. As for you not caring I believe that. I can see that clea...See More
23 minutes ago · Like
Abigail: And good bloody riddance. I've already made a copy of the entire conversation btw. For posterity, since she'll never be seeing any of it.
19 minutes ago · Edited · Like
