[julieTG]

Miss C

Nice post

Rock on

Julie

[AbiDrew85]

Disclaimer: Don't take any of what I'm about to say as personal. I couldn't possibly knock your gender issues; I've had enough of my own. I've got them sorted now, though, so as someone older than yourself who's been through it, let me present a few realities I've come to accept.

Personal, no, but the latter part you most certainly go on and do just that.

I'm not, never have been, and never will be, a woman. I will never have the bone structure, the reproductive equipment, the life experience from birth. No amount of drugs or plastic surgery will ever change that. Ever.

Secondarily to that, I've discovered that I wouldn't want to be, anyway. But that's entirely beside the point.

That's you. My body is actually somewhat ambiguous in bone structure, and whether the reproductive equipment is as well or not is yet to be determined. Though it is an undeniable fact that I have disgustingly "male" equipment. My life experience from birth... That's a much more complex tale to tell. My life experience from birth, in a nutshell, is of a girl who walled herself off from the world and herself incredibly deeply in order to protect herself from a world who insists she's a boy.

I'm not an ordinary testosterone-fueled football-watching meathead guy who thinks with his junk. So where does that leave me? Not a "man" in the common vernacular... and not a woman. What else is there?

I now know the answer to that question: In between. A tranny. Ladyboy. Shemale. Two-spirit. Whatever. And I'm fine with that. As far as I'm concerned, it makes me a rare and special human being, not a freak. That's my attitude, and anyone who doesn't like it can pound sand. Being bi doesn't hurt either, but that's neither here nor there.

Fantastic! I'm glad you can accept yourself for who you are! But THAT'S NOT ME! Oh, not about being a rare and special human being, we're all that.

Now here are a few contradictions floating around in TS-blogland that are so incredible that I'm reminded of the White Queen who could believe six impossible things before breakfast each morning:

OK... Let's see what these contradictions are. I'm suspecting most of them are only your failure of understanding.

GID is and is not a mental illness -- It depends on the day, apparently. TS activists have screamed for years to get Gender Identity Disorder taken out of the DSM, because there's a stigma attached to mental illness. Ah, but then, since it's not a real disease, insurance won't pay for it! A conundrum indeed.

Uhm. Not exactly. Yes. We're saying that our gender's aren't a mental illness, but we're not saying it isn't a "real" medical problem. Thing is, it's not a medical DISEASE, but a medical BIRTH DEFECT. Birth defects are covered too, but without stigma. Maybe pity. I can put up with pity. I've been putting up with stigma, but pity would be much easier.

Sex/gender is in the mind, not the body -- Many theories on this are bandied about for the purpose of proving that someone born obviously male in form can have a female brain, and thus be a collection of feminine neurons somehow placed in the wrong body. This is a crock of shit either way you look at it:

First, the very proponents of this theory suggest that the solution is to change the body. Well, you really can't. You can perform some cosmetic changes, of course -- some facial rearrangement, breast implants, cutting off your penis and sewing it back inside-out... but it's just cosmetic, isn't it?

You do know that female-only subliminal programming has worked on me right? And I suspect that if a hypnotist would try to get inside my head they'd find me, even subconscious, insist I'm female. So no. Not a crock of shit. And presently cosmetic's all that's available, yes, and I'd rather take the cosmetic and get as close to the real me as I can than continue to try to live between. I CAN'T. Because I'm NOT. When medical science comes up with a way to correct me truly and completely, with home-grown female bits grown from my own cell cultures, I'll be signing up to be a test subject. It's possible. And the day it'll become reality is getting closer.

Aha, so now we're forced to defend the notion that we can cure mental illness with plastic surgery.

No. No we're not. I'm not mentally ill. And there's nothing to cure. My BODY needs CORRECTED. I never EVER once said I need someone to "cure" anything did I?

I already cured what could be cured myself. The chronic depression. The hiding deep inside myself. All that mental stuff. I've fought it off best I can in my present circumstance. Is it perfect? No. I'm not fully correct yet and until I am it's going to be a constant battle with those demons. Even then some of them MAY linger, but that's life.

On the other hand, if someone has the temerity to suggest that it's easier to change the mind than the body, they are shouted down by the TS Nazi-ettes. No!! You can't change the mind! Crazy Talk!

Well, Nazi-ettes... I did it. And it didn't cost me a dime. No shrinks. No doctors. They talk of accepting who you are. You need to do more than accept. You need to live to your unique potential.

No. You didn't "change" your mind. You came to accept yourself for the way you are. I've come to accept who I am a long time ago. Unfortunately for me, that's not the end of it but merely the beginning.

That said... You are right though... The mind CAN be reprogrammed. But is it the right thing to do? Especially when all you're really doing is forcing someone to be who they're not and all present evidence suggests that programming that goes too counter to what's already in the subconscious doesn't last.

The mind can do amazing things. You write like a bright individual; I'm certain you can teach yourself to do things with your mind that your peers cannot understand. What the mind can conceive, the body can achieve. Ever heard that?

There's the old saw about having the power to change the things you can, the serenity to accept the things you can't, and the wisdom to know the difference. I will tell you this: no one has ever been happy wanting things they can't possibly obtain.

And thus we get to the crux of things. You're right. I will never be entirely happy in this life. But how's that different from most anyone else in this world? But I can't change that. Most people CAN and choose NOT TO. But the way I was made makes it so that the last little bit of what I NEED to be whole I can't ever have. At least. Not right now. But you see. Science? It's getting there. And I'm young yet. Even if I'm past "normal" reproductive years when it gets there... The bits they grow for me and then implant in will be fresh and young. No eggs used yet. I'll be just starting my reproductive years as soon as the science gets there.

Miss C

Nice post

Rock on

Julie

I'm disappointed in both of you. I don't understand what it is to be in-between either but you don't see me running my mouth against it do you?

I'm NOT in-between. I'll NEVER understand the concept. Just like you're not transsexual, and you'll NEVER understand the concept. Just accept that I'm here, that I'm transsexual, that I'm FEMALE in mind and spirit, and leave the rest of the BS outside.

[MissC]

My life experience from birth, in a nutshell, is of a girl who walled herself off from the world and herself incredibly deeply in order to protect herself from a world who insists she's a boy.

Okay, you had a dysfunctional childhood. Welcome to Earth. Thing is, you are now an adult, and you are entitled to tell anyone you are whatever you want to be. If you wish to live as a girl, you may. It's a free country, or so they say. My parents wouldn't let me be a girl either. I couldn't even have hair past my ears.

They said I could do what I wanted when I grew up, though... so I did. I don't hate them for it; children need some direction in life, and I happen to think my parents were better than most. They just didn't really know what to do with a kid like me.

OK... Let's see what these contradictions are. I'm suspecting most of them are only your failure of understanding.

Yes, that's pretty much what I said. I cannot understand how you can believe some of this nonsense. I do fail to understand. Damn my logical brain.

Uhm. Not exactly. Yes. We're saying that our gender's aren't a mental illness, but we're not saying it isn't a "real" medical problem. Thing is, it's not a medical DISEASE, but a medical BIRTH DEFECT.

Oh, I was hoping you'd bring this up. A birth defect! Being born male is a birth defect! That makes as much sense as saying that being born black or Chinese is a birth defect. Maybe it is... maybe that's the explanation for Uncle Toms -- they're white people born into the wrong color body! Do you not see the absurdity of this line of thinking?

I mean, really!! "Oh, why won't they help me?! I was born in the wrong race!"

Birth defects are a broad category. They can be something simple and easily treatable, like harelip. Or at the other end, we have stuff like Down's Syndrome. No one would argue that Down's is a correctable birth defect.

While I'm having fun with stretching the limits of conclusion, I could suggest that mentally retarded children should have their birth defects treated with brain transplants... or in your world, we could surgically "correct" their bodies to be mangled and useless like their brains?

Poppycock, you say.

When medical science comes up with a way to correct me truly and completely, with home-grown female bits grown from my own cell cultures, I'll be signing up to be a test subject.

That would be interesting... and as a nerd myself, I do love watching the progress of science. It still wouldn't change your DNA or your chromosomes though, so you still wouldn't be "corrected completely".

No. No we're not. I'm not mentally ill. And there's nothing to cure. My BODY needs CORRECTED. I never EVER once said I need someone to "cure" anything did I?

So it's like alcoholism, then, wherein it is thought that someone who hasn't touched a drink in 20 years is still an alcoholic? No cure?

Well, if SRS isn't a cure, then why bother? The point is, it is a medical fact that you can't make a genetic woman out of a genetic man. There won't be anything "corrected", at least, not as I understand the definition of "corrected".

No. You didn't "change" your mind. You came to accept yourself for the way you are. I've come to accept who I am a long time ago. Unfortunately for me, that's not the end of it but merely the beginning.

I most certainly did change it. About a lot of things, actually. I've gone from being a working drone to a business owner, and from a wallflower to a magnetic personality. I won't say it's simple or easy, but it really boils down to the fact that I made decisions as to who and what I wanted to be, and then made it happen. Who are you to presume how my mind works, anyway?

Now you, then... I can with confidence say you have NOT come to accept who you are. Your whole thing here is not about what you are, but what you are not. Or, to look from a different angle, you have accepted that you are something you are not but wish to be. Either way, your assertion makes no sense.

What you are, as you say, is a girl with a boy's body. That's then what you ARE, NOW. But you do not accept this. How can you say you accept yourself? It's as if a paraplegic were to say he accepted himself as an Olympic sprinter. Do you see the logical failure here?

That said... You are right though... The mind CAN be reprogrammed. But is it the right thing to do? Especially when all you're really doing is forcing someone to be who they're not

Nowhere did I suggest force. I have changed the person I am through the force only of my own free will. I'm not going to say that coercion doesn't work -- or advertising wouldn't work like it does. It definitely works. But it's temporary. To achieve lasting results, the changee must be the changer.

In a nutshell, the process was this: I am unhappy. Why? Because I don't have x, y, z. Can I get them? Aha! I can have two of them. How do I do it? Who do I know who does? What do they do? I shall learn this! (That sounds a bit silly... but it is an analytical thought process.)

But, I do not think you yet understand the power of your own mind. You feel trapped in a box, a box of desire which you have not learned to control.

And thus we get to the crux of things. You're right. I will never be entirely happy in this life.

But you said you'd cured yourself of depression. Way to self-actualize, there.

[AbiDrew85]

Okay, you had a dysfunctional childhood. Welcome to Earth. Thing is, you are now an adult, and you are entitled to tell anyone you are whatever you want to be. If you wish to live as a girl, you may. It's a free country, or so they say. My parents wouldn't let me be a girl either. I couldn't even have hair past my ears.

They said I could do what I wanted when I grew up, though... so I did. I don't hate them for it; children need some direction in life, and I happen to think my parents were better than most. They just didn't really know what to do with a kid like me.

That's not quite what I said. I actually as a child never once even tried to tell anyone I was a girl. I can't say as I actually even considered it or its consequences as a child, I probably didn't. I was as much a scientist then as I am now. So I sought to understand. I dug out my parents ginormous medical encyclopedia set and set to studying. What I found is what caused me to just shut myself up and try to be a boy. The medical encyclopedia couldn't be wrong! At least not to my thinking then. I was like. No more than 7 years old at this time! If that.

Yes, that's pretty much what I said. I cannot understand how you can believe some of this nonsense. I do fail to understand. Damn my logical brain.

Right. Logic. You're not using logic. You're using bigoted judgements based on your own life and experiences and blatantly ignoring the "logical" links because they don't fit in with your judgements. Way to be an ass and prove just how macho you still are despite wanting to some things not quite that masculine.

Oh, I was hoping you'd bring this up. A birth defect! Being born male is a birth defect! That makes as much sense as saying that being born black or Chinese is a birth defect. Maybe it is... maybe that's the explanation for Uncle Toms -- they're white people born into the wrong color body! Do you not see the absurdity of this line of thinking?

The absurdities are your fallacies. No. I won't name them and point them out. They're rather incredibly blatant and I shouldn't have to. Anyone who DOESN'T see how fallacious that entire paragraph was would have to be a fool. But then. You knew that, didn't you? You're trolling. Hard. For what reason I haven't the foggiest. But my hormones are low and I'm PMS'ing and even though I KNOW you're trolling me, I'm still not taking this abuse right now. (Why does the worst of the trolling always seem to turn up this time of cycle? Damn Murphy.) You completely ignored what the birth defect ACTUALLY is and claimed it was being born male. No. The birth defect is the part of the brain that's chemically wired as female. Yours is not wired that way. No one yet understands what makes an in-betweeny, but what they DO know there's no malfunction in that particular part of the brain. It's somewhere else.

Birth defects are a broad category. They can be something simple and easily treatable, like harelip. Or at the other end, we have stuff like Down's Syndrome. No one would argue that Down's is a correctable birth defect.

OK. So maybe poor choice of terminology perhaps. Because we aren't treating the birth defect itself, because that's impossible and won't likely ever BE possible. The brain is far too complex. They simply don't know what the hell they're doing in there.

They CAN make my life more livable by giving me a more female form. So that's what they do. The only other option is that on that day when I finally accepted myself, I didn't. And that would have led at best to me going back to being a simulacrum of a living person just going through the motions and waiting for my poor lifestyle to catch up with me and finish me off. At worst, I wouldn't have been able to bear it that long and I'd be a suicide statistic.

While I'm having fun with stretching the limits of conclusion, I could suggest that mentally retarded children should have their birth defects treated with brain transplants... or in your world, we could surgically "correct" their bodies to be mangled and useless like their brains?

Well... This indicates to me that you knew exactly where the birth defect was all along. And it also indicates to me that you still don't want to discuss this rationally but attack it viciously just because it doesn't fit in with your vision of the way the world ought to be.

Poppycock, you say.

More like pity and disappointment. You ought to feel ashamed of yourself.

That would be interesting... and as a nerd myself, I do love watching the progress of science. It still wouldn't change your DNA or your chromosomes though, so you still wouldn't be "corrected completely".

Sure I would. You do know that there's research on making man-made viruses to change people's very DNA right? Shoot. If they'd lift the ban on stem cell research, a blend of three sciences could theoretically be the best avenue of research: nanobots delivering first a retrovirus to change the DNA and then activating every stem cell in the body to cause the body to be rebuilt entirely to the new DNA. The same thing could be used to permanently eliminate aging. Just have the retrovirus be to rewrite your DNA back to how it was when you were at your prime. They COULD possibly use the same thing to fix ANY brain defect as well. Which are currently untreatable. That would be able to make me and you both a "real boy". Would you sign up to have your brain fixed that way? I'm not entirely sure I would... We're talking about my entire ID here.

Oh, and they're finding out that we actually do keep producing stem cells forever. There's a huge flood of them from when we're born through the earliest years, but they become far less abundant fairly early in development and then remain essentially the same the rest of our lives. Stem cells are beautiful things...

So it's like alcoholism, then, wherein it is thought that someone who hasn't touched a drink in 20 years is still an alcoholic? No cure?

No. Because this isn't a disease.

Well, if SRS isn't a cure, then why bother? The point is, it is a medical fact that you can't make a genetic woman out of a genetic man. There won't be anything "corrected", at least, not as I understand the definition of "corrected".

Even though it's impossible right now doesn't mean number one, that it'll always be, or number two, that the answer is for me to attempt to live life as you do. I couldn't do it. It's not who I am. I am a woman and I could NEVER even be the LEAST bit male enough to interact with the world as a feminine man.

I most certainly did change it. About a lot of things, actually. I've gone from being a working drone to a business owner, and from a wallflower to a magnetic personality.

Good for you! And this has WHAT to do with gender? I'm working on doing the same sort of things. Ain't got squat to do with being female though.

I won't say it's simple or easy, but it really boils down to the fact that I made decisions as to who and what I wanted to be, and then made it happen. Who are you to presume how my mind works, anyway?

See. It's something I try very hard not to say anything about because I KNOW someone like you is going to take it entirely the wrong way and then use THAT for an excuse to do JUST THAT to me. You're the one presuming to know how my mind works. You're presuming I work the same way you do. An betweenie. But I'm NOT A BETWEENIE. I DO know who I am, and an effeminate or feminine male or any other sort of "I'm a man but want some female characteristics" term or combination is NOT IT. So you trying to shoe-horn me into your world doesn't work. I don't belong in it any more than you belong in the transsexual one. I'm not trying to convert anyone to transsexualism. This thread exists because interbingung apparently feels she does. Not for any other reason. You, OTOH, ARE trying to "convert" me into an in-betweenie. Which is impossible. I'm not one and you can't make someone be what they're not. You can try but all you'll succeed in doing is making them very pissed off and/or miserable. You are pissing me off. Not really making me very miserable though, I'm well past that stage.

Now you, then... I can with confidence say you have NOT come to accept who you are.

Who's presuming to know who? I'm female. Period. End of story. No other qualifiers or whatever have you can be or should be appended. Since it is generally acknowledged that our ID is based on our brain, that's all that there is to it. ESPECIALLY since subliminal programming with embedded limitations to make it ONLY effect women WORKS FOR ME. Go ahead and go spend like $9 on the exact same program I used and see if you develop a more feminine voice without doing ANY additional work.

Here, I'll even provide you a link:

http://subliminal-shop.com/product/devel...ine-voice/

Spend $18 and get the men's version and you can see if you can reverse it:

http://subliminal-shop.com/product/devel...ine-voice/

If BOTH programs work, then I'll accede that something must be wrong with Shannon's work, and you should tell him so. Otherwise... I'm female. And that's proof.

Honestly I'm suspecting your brain will reject both sets of instructions. But I don't know that and it'd certainly be an interesting experiment to find out!

Your whole thing here is not about what you are, but what you are not. Or, to look from a different angle, you have accepted that you are something you are not but wish to be. Either way, your assertion makes no sense.

Not so. You are again inserting your own bigoted opinions and ignoring what I'm actually saying.

All I've ever said is that I'm female but that I don't "pass". In other words, I'm ugly right now, I know I'm ugly, and no one in their right mind can possibly NOT think me ugly.

I'm hairier than most men. And no one's finding that at all attractive.

What you are, as you say, is a girl with a boy's body. That's then what you ARE, NOW.

Didn't say this either. I have the hips. The waist. The facial features. My skeleton looks like a fairly average female skeleton. Slightly large. But definitely not male. I'm extremely hirsute though.

I've done frame size testing three different ways several times each and every single way I do the calculations I don't even chart on the men's chart but come out as "medium" for a female. IF I were to use that then to mean I'm simply "small" for a male, then I should be an ectomorph. But I'm not. I'm a combination endo/meso. I put weight on fairly easy. Especially fat. And when I do put on muscle is tightly toned and never ever bulks up.

Considering the evidence I'm probably some kind of IS. And most likely PAIS.

But you do not accept this. How can you say you accept yourself?

How can you say I do not? Your entire argument is based on the presumption that I must be in some way like you. But I'm not. So your entire argument is void.

It's as if a paraplegic were to say he accepted himself as an Olympic sprinter. Do you see the logical failure here?

Nice try. But that's not what's being said here and you know it. What is being said is that:

Facts:
A: I am a female.
B: My body has certain traits that are undoubtedly female but other traits that make men look positively like girls.
C: I can change those traits with a lot of time, effort, and money.
D: I'll never be even remotely close to even knowing what "happy" means if I try to live as even something remotely like a man.
E: I can be mostly happy enough if I take the time, effort, and money to change those aspects of my body that I can.
F: I might never know the happiness of being a mother of my own biological children but then there's plenty of women in that same boat anyways.
G: I can live a much better life with that one small unhappiness than as a simulacrum of a person just waiting to die.

Conclusion:
H: I have accepted all of these facts and am thus working towards changing what can be changed so I can have the happiest life possible.

So there you have it. Complete logic formula spelled out in such a way that you can't POSSIBLY miss it. But you'll probably miss it anyways with that great big honking beam in your eye. Seriously. How do you see anything with that thing?

Nowhere did I suggest force. I have changed the person I am through the force only of my own free will. I'm not going to say that coercion doesn't work -- or advertising wouldn't work like it does. It definitely works. But it's temporary. To achieve lasting results, the changee must be the changer.

Actually, you did. And I quote:

if someone has the temerity to suggest that it's easier to change the mind than the body

The only people making that suggestion are the ones who prescribe various methods of torture to force us to deny ourselves and become their puppet, dancing to whatever tune they sing for us... And you.

Granted. You then went on to claim that YOU changed YOURS. OK. So you knew absolutely without a doubt in your soul that you were a female? But you somehow managed to talk yourself out of that "insanity" and change your mind? But that's not what you went on to say about how you changed your mind. In fact what you said you changed is perfectly logical and quite certainly able to be changed. But has nothing to do with gender.

In a nutshell, the process was this: I am unhappy. Why? Because I don't have x, y, z. Can I get them? Aha! I can have two of them. How do I do it? Who do I know who does? What do they do? I shall learn this! (That sounds a bit silly... but it is an analytical thought process.)

Feel free to take that beam out of your eye and the take a look at my logical construct above.

If you want I can take it even further.

Past Conclusion Now New Premise:
H: I have accepted all of these facts and am thus working towards changing what can be changed so I can have the happiest life possible.

Clarification Premises (what do I want to change):
Ia: Eliminate my facial hair because it makes me feel ugly and I'm tired of trying to shave it every single day and coming up with more and more elaborate and expensive ways to do so without turning my face into a bleeding stump.
Ja: Eliminate my body hair for mostly the same reasons as above, though I don't have to shave my arms and legs every day and honestly don't really even NEED to eliminate those, just the torso.
Ka: Grow my hair out so I can get it in a feminine style so I can stop wearing itchy wigs and yet not be mistaken for a man either.
La: Have my penis and testes removed and a neo vagina fashioned in in their place so I can enjoy sex instead of having the very idea of it repulse me. Also so I can stop trying to bind the stupid thing with poorly fitting garments meant for a male pelvic shape but have full confidence that it won't slip out and embarrass me.
Ma: Continue to improve my figure mostly just because I can but also because I really WANT better boobs and hips and a more defined waist and... I honestly don't care what anyone else does or does not think about it. In fact my parents are convinced I've gone anorexic and don't eat anymore.
Na: I'd love to be a wife and parent some day...

Exploration Premises (Can I do these things):
Ib: Yes. And am presently getting laser sessions on my neck, my final session currently paid for is coming up and I don't presently have money to get more, but that's ok. I can be patient.
Jb: Yes. There's at least three choices here. I could continue paying for sessions with a professional or get one of two at-home devices which are FDA approved and proven effective at permanent hair removal. Currently I'll just continue the shaving because I can't afford any of these options and the possible fourth option is not yet even available, though if it became available tomorrow I still wouldn't be able to afford it. Convincing Shannon to build a full body hair depilatory subliminal. Even should I be able to convince him to and afford to pay him for the work I'd still have to wait until my present subliminal programs are finished, and I'm only just starting stage 3 of 6, so I'm not even halfway.
Kb: Yes. And I'm taking various supplements and using various topicals to help it grow better. Might need a trim soon to keep the ends good.
Lb: Yes. But I can't presently afford it, nor can I afford to see a therapist the requisite number of times to get a recommendation letter for it.
Mb: Yes. And I'm doing it. Between changing my diet and taking my supplements my boobs are growing and my hips are expanding and my waist is not.
Nb: Maybe... But I can't really do anything to actively encourage this to happen, and for the "mother" part we'd have to adopt.

Conclusion and new Premise:
O: A lot of this hinges on making money to afford them. What's my plan to make this happen?

P: I'm currently using two subliminals in concert with each other that will hopefully help get me to a place in my life that I might finally start getting on my feet. Life Tune Up and Ultra Success. Ultra Success has manifestation programming in it to help attract things into my life to help me succeed. When they have finished I have a whole line of programs I am just waiting to use to help me get where I want to be.

But, I do not think you yet understand the power of your own mind. You feel trapped in a box, a box of desire which you have not learned to control.

You obviously have not paid much attention to my posts. At all. I'm not just talking this thread either. Please. Go. Learn about me by reading about me before you go making accusations like these.

And thus we get to the crux of things. You're right. I will never be entirely happy in this life.

But you said you'd cured yourself of depression. Way to self-actualize, there.

How is "not entirely happy" and "depressed" the same thing? As someone intimately and thoroughly familiar with just how deep the chasm of despair really is, believe me, I'm not depressed about the facts in my life. They are what they are and that's part of life. The ONLY reason I'll never be ENTIRELY happy is because I'll never be pregnant. I'll never bear my own child. I'll never give birth. This is somewhat saddening, especially when I actually stop and bother myself over it. But If I Don't Dwell Then There Is Nothing Wrong. Lots of other women in this world can't be mothers to their own biological offspring either. They aren't ALL depressed about it. None of them are HAPPY about it either though.

[Missed Miss]

And thus we get to the crux of things. You're right. I will never be entirely happy in this life. But how's that different from most anyone else in this world? But I can't change that. Most people CAN and choose NOT TO. But the way I was made makes it so that the last little bit of what I NEED to be whole I can't ever have. At least. Not right now. But you see. Science? It's getting there. And I'm young yet. Even if I'm past "normal" reproductive years when it gets there... The bits they grow for me and then implant in will be fresh and young. No eggs used yet. I'll be just starting my reproductive years as soon as the science gets there.
[/quote]

I read something in the medical world at least 5 years ago that said the first uterine transplant has been a total success!! A woman donated her body (or just the uterus) when she died, so they implanted it into a T-girl and she can now produce eggs, have periods, get pregnant and even have the baby!! Cool, hun!! :-) I would guess that the eggs are those of the woman they came from rather than her own, but it's a HUGE step closer, isn't it?

[MissC]

Considering the evidence I'm probably some kind of IS. And most likely PAIS.

Inter-Sex. Not male, not female; in-between.

You were, of course, right to bring up IS when I originally joined this forum. There's a pretty good chance I'm some kind of it, too. But you got right up my nose with your immediate implication that there's something wrong with me, and that I should rush to a doctor.

If I'm IS, fine. The medical establishment actually does consider that a birth defect. And I'd probably be upset about that, if my give-a-shit wasn't broken. But... well... I'm pretty fucking awesome, all round.

You are, let's face it, an argumentative sort. I don't happen to think that's a bad thing. It's a sign of a better than average mind. And I do enjoy a good argument -- Monty Python style or not. Half the things I've said to you, if I had said them to an average mind, would have resulted in glazed eyes and drool. You also have quite an imagination.

I don't know why you're being so reactionary. Estrogen does that, I've noticed, so likely your program is working. I'm not trying to troll you, or insult you, upset you, or anything else. I've tried to keep my arguments generic, or based only upon your own words, kept in context as much as I can. I'm trying to avoid pushing your buttons, but you keep making yourself into one big button with a hair trigger.

So...

All I've ever said is that I'm female but that I don't "pass". In other words, I'm ugly right now, I know I'm ugly, and no one in their right mind can possibly NOT think me ugly.

I'm hairier than most men. And no one's finding that at all attractive.

... I won't reply to the rest of your post. I could; you know that.

But you're obviously your own worst enemy.

I only wanted to share my experience with you, in hopes that it would help. Perhaps you might see another way. If you don't, fine. Some people do find my story helpful. More than one potential SRS candidate has changed their mind. I'm not out to convert anyone, but to save one person with a decent mind from what could be a regretted decision or a wasted life. If that's not you, fine.

I don't know you. I've never met you, and likely never will. You're one of billions of humans on this planet who, when it comes down to it, I really don't give a fuck about.

The reality is, I have known for longer than you've been alive that it's useless to try and talk sense to people. I really only do it occasionally, anyway. My best lady friend tells me that it's because somewhere deep down I really do care. I told her she's nuts.

[sfem]

People who have a firm belief in the binary nature of gender seem to have a very hard time accepting the view of those who do not. I have seen this many times from many people, both trans and non-trans. On this board and others.
My personal theory is that it has nothing to do with what they think of what is being called in-betweeners here, and everything to do with what they think of themselves. The theory I favour is that until you fully embrace your own uniqueness (not just make peace with what you think of as your defects, or display it/them to others hoping for their approval), you will struggle to accept the differences in others. I also currently favour the notion that this particular concept is not specific to gender/sex/body issues, but to everything we experience in life.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

[AbiDrew85]

I read something in the medical world at least 5 years ago that said the first uterine transplant has been a total success!! A woman donated her body (or just the uterus) when she died, so they implanted it into a T-girl and she can now produce eggs, have periods, get pregnant and even have the baby!! Cool, hun!! :-) I would guess that the eggs are those of the woman they came from rather than her own, but it's a HUGE step closer, isn't it?

Actually last I knew there were more than one, one was "successful" the others rejected fairly quickly. All were from genetic female to genetic female. The "successful" one was mother to daughter and STILL required a chock full of anti-rejection drugs to be taken the rest of the girls life. She did get pregnant and they are presently carefully tracking the pregnancy to make sure nothing goes wrong. They don't know if the anti-rejection drugs will or will not cause problems. Either with the pregnancy itself, delivery, or some sort of developmental difficulties for the child.

But it is a step. And an important one.

Meanwhile in another corner of the world of science they have successfully grown and implanted living tissue made from the recipients own DNA. Different organs. But also an important step.

And whilst these miraculous advances are being made openly, the government continues its clandestine research into nanobots and retroviruses.

Yet, unfortunately, stem cell research remains stalled due to the UN ban.

[AbiDrew85]

Inter-Sex. Not male, not female; in-between.

So... that's my physical sex. And? It remains that I have a female ID. My ID is not in-between even if my sex is.

You were, of course, right to bring up IS when I originally joined this forum. There's a pretty good chance I'm some kind of it, too. But you got right up my nose with your immediate implication that there's something wrong with me, and that I should rush to a doctor.

OK. Hold up. Lemme look back at this one. I don't always keep perfect track of everything. They say that's a mark of intelligence

Oh you're THAT character. That explains why you attacked this thread. You have a VERY powerful bias against transsexuals for some reason. Actually, you really seem to have some powerful hate for the gender binary period. I'm not trying to say only the gender binary exists. But you've later indicated to be so damned old that I suppose it's impossible for you to be any sort of IS that's dangerous, so I may have jumped the gun on that a little fast.

Still. None of this excuses your behavior. You're welcome to being between if that's where you're happy. I'm NOT EVER going to be happy in-between. Get over it.

If I'm IS, fine. The medical establishment actually does consider that a birth defect. And I'd probably be upset about that, if my give-a-shit wasn't broken. But... well... I'm pretty fucking awesome, all round.

No, you just have a big head and bigoted opinions.

You are, let's face it, an argumentative sort. I don't happen to think that's a bad thing. It's a sign of a better than average mind. And I do enjoy a good argument -- Monty Python style or not. Half the things I've said to you, if I had said them to an average mind, would have resulted in glazed eyes and drool. You also have quite an imagination.

By "argumentative" you mean I have a very powerful mind and know how to use it and don't always like to let BS just lie there without calling it for what it is?

I don't know why you're being so reactionary. Estrogen does that, I've noticed, so likely your program is working.

Show's what you know about girl's. P M S. My estrogen's actually gone for a dive and my progesterone's following closely after, my prolactin's BEEN swimming, and my testosterone is coming up the ladder.

I'm taking my stuff in a way that closely imitates a natural female cycle. And getting all the bonuses from doing so. If you'd have done this 2 weeks ago while my estrogen was on the rise, you probably would have seen a completely different response. If any. I might actually have ignored you at that time of month.

I'm not trying to troll you, or insult you, upset you, or anything else. I've tried to keep my arguments generic, or based only upon your own words, kept in context as much as I can. I'm trying to avoid pushing your buttons, but you keep making yourself into one big button with a hair trigger.

You're doing a mighty fine job of not trying.

... I won't reply to the rest of your post. I could; you know that.

Damn. And I was SOOO looking forward to seeing your logic construct as to how you honestly truly 100% thought yourself female heart mind and soul and then... CHANGED YOUR MIND!

But you're obviously your own worst enemy.

Please. Explain. I might be. Many people are without realizing it. But if you're going to use this as a sounding board to continue arguing that I'm a betweenie and should just accept it, don't even bother. I'm getting quite tired of your continual beating of that drum without actually producing a single fact to back it up.

I only wanted to share my experience with you, in hopes that it would help. Perhaps you might see another way. If you don't, fine. Some people do find my story helpful. More than one potential SRS candidate has changed their mind. I'm not out to convert anyone, but to save one person with a decent mind from what could be a regretted decision or a wasted life. If that's not you, fine.

Which you haven't done. At all. All you've done is try to claim I'm a betweenie like you and should just accept it. You haven't even explained how you were EVER at all like me to have changed YOUR mind and become a betweenie.

I don't know you. I've never met you, and likely never will. You're one of billions of humans on this planet who, when it comes down to it, I really don't give a fuck about.

Exactly. Finally you admit it. So why the hell did you ever barge into a thread in which the presence of someone so entirely against the very concept of transition was NEVER wanted?

The reality is, I have known for longer than you've been alive that it's useless to try and talk sense to people. I really only do it occasionally, anyway. My best lady friend tells me that it's because somewhere deep down I really do care. I told her she's nuts.

Yeah. She is. Cuz you obviously don't even know what "care" means. As for me... I've known that for about as long as I've been alive. That's why I've repeatedly throughout this entire debate said that I know you aren't listening. And you've done a fine job of proving it. Congratulations! I have officially failed ONCE AGAIN to talk sense into you. Now go scurry on back under your rock and leave the transexuals threads alone.

I don't want to see anyone else go through what I'm going through either, but the fact is, when someone asks for something, and I can give it, I give it.

[AbiDrew85]

People who have a firm belief in the binary nature of gender seem to have a very hard time accepting the view of those who do not. I have seen this many times from many people, both trans and non-trans. On this board and others.
My personal theory is that it has nothing to do with what they think of what is being called in-betweeners here, and everything to do with what they think of themselves. The theory I favour is that until you fully embrace your own uniqueness (not just make peace with what you think of as your defects, or display it/them to others hoping for their approval), you will struggle to accept the differences in others. I also currently favour the notion that this particular concept is not specific to gender/sex/body issues, but to everything we experience in life.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

I'm not sure I get where you're going with this?

I have little trouble understanding gender as a spectrum. Sex also is a spectrum. And attraction.

My problem is with anyone insisting I PERSONALLY should be in-between. Because I'm not. I could care less if they are or are like me or are perfectly at home in a hetero-normative definition in which their sex is male, their gender is male, and their attraction is to females. (or female, female, male)

I don't truly understand how the "in-betweenie" categories work. (Usually referred to as genderqueer, and I've been having a very rough time avoiding using the terminology since apparently you guys here don't like it.)

But I have no trouble recognizing that they exist and understanding gender on a whole in a way that doesn't exclude you. Though some of you really get on my nerves. Especially "MissC".

When speaking with one of you I always try to respect who YOU are. Which is not like me. If I'm speaking to someone like me, then I'll respect them for who THEY are.

My problem wasn't with genderqueer in general, but with MissC trying to shoe-horn me into it.

I AM transsexual. I'm not necessarily proud of it. But the way I see things saying I'm proud to be transsexual would be a bit... off.

I am proud to be who I am, and that's a strong intelligent individual, who happens to be a woman who happened to be misidentified male at birth and happens to have physical characteristics of both, who has had to struggle her entire life just to understand the situation she's found herself in due to those facts.

Everyone else here is free to be who they are and proud to be such... As long as they don't go around trying to pretend theirs is the only true way of gender.