13-11-2013, 03:48 PM
Agreed, it certainly will not hurt to take a break. :-)
When I first saw this thread, I thought 'Maybe I have something to contribute" then having looked back I thought maybe not. And now finally that I might as well put in my two pennyworth.
Since I started NBE I have been admitted to men's surgical at my local hospital three times. The first time five years ago I had been pursuing NBE without apparent results for six months, and admission from the ER was followed by palliative measures and a delay of three days before surgery as they waited to get some of the meds I was taking out of my system or took measures to counteract them - to my knowledge these included warfarin and digoxin. I never disclosed the herbs then, but the incident did finish off my NBE efforts for quite a while.
The second time was a little over a year ago when I had gallbladder surgery. I stopped PM and other NBE herbs while waiting nearly 3 months for the surgery, although for much of the time I was taking various things in an unsuccessful attempt to restore male function, stopping however well before the surgery. It was supposed to be day surgery but in the event I was admitted briefly because I did not come out of the general anesthetic as well as I should. It was disconcerting for my wife who arrived to pick me up, and at first had difficulty in locating me.
The third time I was again admitted from the ER, and events took much the same course as the first time, except that I was no longer taking digoxin, and after six days I was discharged without surgery. though that remains a possibility if the same emergency recurs.
Primary concerns seemed to be with things that do or might act as blood thinners, or which might affect response to anesthesia. A great number of things are listed as possibly affecting blood thinners, including for example SP (although my experience has been that it does not). I wondered at one time whether PM does so but eventually concluded that it did not. A difficulty with PM is that nobody really seems to know how long the influence of its metabolites on one's system takes to wear off, even though its own half life may be fairly short. So stopping well before planned surgery may well be the best course.
I hope this may help a little, and that your surgery goes well.
Since I started NBE I have been admitted to men's surgical at my local hospital three times. The first time five years ago I had been pursuing NBE without apparent results for six months, and admission from the ER was followed by palliative measures and a delay of three days before surgery as they waited to get some of the meds I was taking out of my system or took measures to counteract them - to my knowledge these included warfarin and digoxin. I never disclosed the herbs then, but the incident did finish off my NBE efforts for quite a while.
The second time was a little over a year ago when I had gallbladder surgery. I stopped PM and other NBE herbs while waiting nearly 3 months for the surgery, although for much of the time I was taking various things in an unsuccessful attempt to restore male function, stopping however well before the surgery. It was supposed to be day surgery but in the event I was admitted briefly because I did not come out of the general anesthetic as well as I should. It was disconcerting for my wife who arrived to pick me up, and at first had difficulty in locating me.
The third time I was again admitted from the ER, and events took much the same course as the first time, except that I was no longer taking digoxin, and after six days I was discharged without surgery. though that remains a possibility if the same emergency recurs.
Primary concerns seemed to be with things that do or might act as blood thinners, or which might affect response to anesthesia. A great number of things are listed as possibly affecting blood thinners, including for example SP (although my experience has been that it does not). I wondered at one time whether PM does so but eventually concluded that it did not. A difficulty with PM is that nobody really seems to know how long the influence of its metabolites on one's system takes to wear off, even though its own half life may be fairly short. So stopping well before planned surgery may well be the best course.
I hope this may help a little, and that your surgery goes well.
17-11-2013, 01:47 PM
PM does have some dilation effect on blood vessels and can cause minor circulatory changes. Not anything that would impact a normal healthy body in daily life. But undergoing surgery, anaesthetic, other serious pharmaceuticals, etc. takes you out of the normal healthy body in daily life category at least for a short time. I would definitely stop the PM at least a couple of weeks prior and probably after as well. I know from personal experience that PM can cause me trouble in my feet/toes and recently also my fingers. Probably related to my gout in some way, since almost no-one else I am aware of reports such symptoms. But I can reliably reproduce the issue and eliminate it by regulating my PM intake so I know that PM is the trigger, if not the cause. If anyone ever does a study on it, I'll have to volunteer.
17-11-2013, 05:19 PM
Annabel and sfem,
Thank you for your feedback! I have indeed decided to take a break from PM. I was going to make it two weeks, but after reading Annabel's experience I decided to stop yesterday (about 4 weeks prior to the surgery). I'm not taking any other NBE herbs or supplements right now (just PM). Besides cholesterol medication the only other supplements I take are vitamins (I'm stopping those too, just until after the surgery).
Misty
Thank you for your feedback! I have indeed decided to take a break from PM. I was going to make it two weeks, but after reading Annabel's experience I decided to stop yesterday (about 4 weeks prior to the surgery). I'm not taking any other NBE herbs or supplements right now (just PM). Besides cholesterol medication the only other supplements I take are vitamins (I'm stopping those too, just until after the surgery).
Misty
17-11-2013, 07:46 PM
Sfem,
I was very interested by your post since I have peripheral neuropathy that affects sensory, motor and autonomic functions in my legs. toes and fingers to a degree that has caused me some concern; I have always been badly coordinated but my feet are becoming so clumsy that I am worried about trips and falls (one recently badly bruised my left breast and a rib beneath - very painful as you can imagine), and I have also had gout problems in the past -I was taking allopurinol for more than 12 years and only fairly recently stopped taking it (with medical approval). Possibly as a result of heart failure back in 1999, I developed chronic venous insufficiecy in my legs leading to serious edema in my legs and feet, and the doses of diuretics taken to control the edema appear to have triggered the gout, I have also wondered whether my susceptibility to gout is related to my tendency to generate stones, first kidney stones starting about 40 years ago and for the last 30 years, bladder stones. The neuropathy first really showed up about 8 or 9 years ago, at which time I started getting unreasonably painful ulcers on my toes and legs. Although my blood sugar levels were more or less OK, I did test as having impaired glucose tolerance which must have been enough to trigger diabetic neuropathy given my already impaired peripheral ciculation. I was able to beat the ulcers with the wound healing techniques of an excellent local plastic surgeon, and control the edema with pressure socks and horse chestnut . Sorry about all this history, but my point is that all this was long before I had ever heard of PM. Since I first started PM I have been on and off it and have varied my dose, more recently on a cyclical basis, and have never noticed any effect on nor recent aggravation of the neuropathy. I will certainly keep an eye open in future for possible dose related changes. When the horse chestnut (as well of course as PM) was stopped by the hospital for a week during my recent stay there, I did note a slight and fairly shortlived subsequent recurrence of edema in my ankles. One factor which I believe may be relevant is hydration level. Mine seems to vary over the medium term in a manner and for reasons I have not been able to deduce, but which again seems unrelated to PM.
Sorry, Misty, for wandering off topic.
I was very interested by your post since I have peripheral neuropathy that affects sensory, motor and autonomic functions in my legs. toes and fingers to a degree that has caused me some concern; I have always been badly coordinated but my feet are becoming so clumsy that I am worried about trips and falls (one recently badly bruised my left breast and a rib beneath - very painful as you can imagine), and I have also had gout problems in the past -I was taking allopurinol for more than 12 years and only fairly recently stopped taking it (with medical approval). Possibly as a result of heart failure back in 1999, I developed chronic venous insufficiecy in my legs leading to serious edema in my legs and feet, and the doses of diuretics taken to control the edema appear to have triggered the gout, I have also wondered whether my susceptibility to gout is related to my tendency to generate stones, first kidney stones starting about 40 years ago and for the last 30 years, bladder stones. The neuropathy first really showed up about 8 or 9 years ago, at which time I started getting unreasonably painful ulcers on my toes and legs. Although my blood sugar levels were more or less OK, I did test as having impaired glucose tolerance which must have been enough to trigger diabetic neuropathy given my already impaired peripheral ciculation. I was able to beat the ulcers with the wound healing techniques of an excellent local plastic surgeon, and control the edema with pressure socks and horse chestnut . Sorry about all this history, but my point is that all this was long before I had ever heard of PM. Since I first started PM I have been on and off it and have varied my dose, more recently on a cyclical basis, and have never noticed any effect on nor recent aggravation of the neuropathy. I will certainly keep an eye open in future for possible dose related changes. When the horse chestnut (as well of course as PM) was stopped by the hospital for a week during my recent stay there, I did note a slight and fairly shortlived subsequent recurrence of edema in my ankles. One factor which I believe may be relevant is hydration level. Mine seems to vary over the medium term in a manner and for reasons I have not been able to deduce, but which again seems unrelated to PM.
Sorry, Misty, for wandering off topic.
19-11-2013, 08:43 PM
Sorry to hear about the troubles you have had. Complicated critters, aren't we? You have enough going on that I am not sure how you would narrow down the source if inidividual issues. I wish to best success in dealing with those issues. I am no stranger to the diabetes related complications.
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