[Lotus]

Well, I'm no expert in this subject area, but something seems obvious to me.

Here's the description of 'estrogen receptor' from Wikipedia:

"Estrogen receptors are a group of proteins found inside cells. They are receptors that are activated by the hormone estrogen (17β-estradiol).[1] Two classes of estrogen receptor exist: ER, which is a member of the nuclear hormone family of intracellular receptors, and GPR30, which is a member of the rhodopsin-like family of G protein-coupled receptors. This article refers to the former (ER).

Once activated by estrogen, the ER is able to translocate into the nucleus and bind to DNA to regulate the activity of different genes (i.e. it is a DNA-binding transcription factor). However, it also has additional functions independent of DNA binding.[2]"

So the number of estrogen receptors is as many as there are cells containing the relevant proteins. That says that as breast tissue grows, the number of cells increases, so the number of receptors increases accordingly. There are literally MILLIONS of estrogen receptors in the body.

Okay, so set me straight. Where am I going off the rails?

Clara

Thanks Clara,

Glad we're embracing the science!, isn't this fascinating!

There are target tissues as I've listed, and only 2 kinds of estrogen receptors types ER-a and
ER-b,

And Estrogen does the rest-

I'll have another post about PM coming up shortly, more info to digest.

[Lotus]

Would it surprise anyone to think of PM as Boobie Multivitamin?
Consider that it has 7 Phytoestrogens,



1) In addition to miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol, Pueraria Mirifica also contains other chemicals that belong to isoflavones and Coumestan groups of phyto-estrogens, e.g.,

• Genistein,
  
• Daidzein,
  
• Daidzin,
  
• Genistin,
  
• Coumestrol
  
• Miroestrol
  
• Deoxymiroestrol
  

2) Miroestrol (the bioactive component of Pueraria Mirifica) appears to be a quarter as potent as 17β-estradiol in inducing estrogenic like effects. It has been noted that Deoxymiroestrol is actually stronger than Mirosterol (as well as Isomiroestrol) with about 10-fold greater potency in an MCF-7 cell assay relative to Miroestrol. These authors suggested that Deoxymiroestrol should be considered the main bioactive estrogen, since it is plausible that passive oxidation by exposure to the air could have resulted in Miroestrol production from Deoxymirosterol. Relative to the Soy Isoflavones Genistein and Daidzein, the chromene compounds Miroestrol and Deoxymiroestrol are approximately 1,000-10,000 fold more potent on a weight basis (claim stated here, which compares the potencies derived from these two studies[10][12]) and in some studies directly assesing the claim it is found that the soy isoflavones do not contribute towards the majority of estrogenicity.


3)-The chromene compounds are potent and direct estrogen receptor agonists, and Deoxymiroesterol appears to be more potent than 17β-Estradiol itself (17β-Estradiol is the most relevant naturally occuring estrogen compound in the human body)


4) May have similar (in phenotype and potency) anti-androgenic and suppressive effects in the testes as estrogen itself:
-Isolated Miroestrol and Deoxymiroestrol incubated in testes of male mice appear to have similar suppressive effects on enzymes within the steroid synthesis metabolic pathway (17β-HSD1 and CYP19 mRNA, to a lesser degree 3β-HSD and CYP17) while inducing 17β-HSD2 mRNA; the direction of effects and magntiude of effect were similar when comparing the chromenes against estradiol.[61]
(Down regulation of gene related sex hormone synthesis pathway in mouse testes by miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21856387

Pueraria mirifica- (this site is awesome for supplement info!)
http://examine.com/supplements/Pueraria+mirifica/#ref61


5) By modulating androgen receptor coactivators, daidzein may act as a phytoandrogen
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...0/abstract
(Oh yeah, we'll need to talk about this one!).


6) And who can forget about how it affects Estrogen Receptotrs, (thank you all for the discussions).


7) Also said to benefit-
breast enlargement treatment
menopausal issues
against psoriasis - after few days to weeks use you'll be amazed how well it helps
against pimples
anti-wrinkle
anti-aging
stronger nails
facial skin is smoother and less oily
better, faster and stronger hair growth (best results when combining extract with capsules)
body tonic & body feels energetic
increase in healthy vaginal moisture and sex drive (perfect choice for women who suffer dryness)

[spanky]

A particular concern of mine is to minimize the risk of prostate cancer, as both my father and grandfather died of it. I have episodically taken DIMM thinking it might help, but grew concerned that it might be knhibiting the effect of PM. Any advice on that front will be much appreciated.

[Lotus]

A particular concern of mine is to minimize the risk of prostate cancer, as both my father and grandfather died of it. I have episodically taken DIMM thinking it might help, but grew concerned that it might be knhibiting the effect of PM. Any advice on that front will be much appreciated.

Hi spanky,

I'm so sorry to hear about you're father and grandfather, when's the last time you had yourself checked?. As far the two together it would seem like a good fit, to be sure I'd ask your PCP if you can. (I'll do more research and see what else's shakes out)



DIM is Diindolylmethane-It is an anti carcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a Strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, Taken with estrogen agonist, activities of DIM are seen as an hormone disrupter. DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.


Dim is also considered an AA. (Estrogen agonist)-an antagonist for estrogen that is used in the treatment of breast cancer, like taking tamoxifen, which is a drug that antagonizes breast cancer cells.

[Lotus]

A particular concern of mine is to minimize the risk of prostate cancer, as both my father and grandfather died of it. I have episodically taken DIMM thinking it might help, but grew concerned that it might be knhibiting the effect of PM. Any advice on that front will be much appreciated.

Hi spanky,

I'm so sorry to hear about you're father and grandfather, when's the last time you had yourself checked?. As far the two together it would seem like a good fit, to be sure I'd ask your PCP if you can. (I'll do more research and see what else's shakes out)



DIM is Diindolylmethane-It is an anti carcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a Strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, Taken with estrogen agonist, activities of DIM are seen as an hormone disrupter. DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.


Dim is also considered an AA. (Estrogen agonist)-an antagonist for estrogen that is used in the treatment of breast cancer, like taking tamoxifen, which is a drug that antagonizes breast cancer cells.

Well, turns out they actually make a product with PM and Dim, said to enhance PM, which to me means the metabolism.

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Answer-Pue...B003HEVFIW

Hope it helps!

[spanky]

Thank you for your responses, Mistress Lotus. I would like to figure out when to take PM versus when to take DIMM, so that the estrogen agonist function of DIMM does not cancel out the PM, unless the fact that there are products containing both suggests that DIMM does not cancel out or inhibit the etrogenic effect of PM. [/align]

[Lotus]

Thank you for your responses, Mistress Lotus. I would like to figure out when to take PM versus when to take DIMM, so that the estrogen agonist function of DIMM does not cancel out the PM, unless the fact that there are products containing both suggests that DIMM does not cancel out or inhibit the etrogenic effect of PM. [/align]

I take as meaning they benefit each other, for example here's the product description,


Nature's Answer Purestal vegetarian capsules features Pueraria Mirifica, along with the cruciferous vegetable extract DIM (di-indolylmethane), and essential vitamins and minerals. Pueraria Mirifica has been used traditionally in its native Thailand for centuries, and modern science has now isolated active phytoestrogens from this plant, which help support female hormonal balance. DIM is a substance extracted from vegetables like kale and broccoli, which help to enhance this female friendly effect.

[MissC]

along with the cruciferous vegetable extract DIM (di-indolylmethane),

Hmm... good thing I always eat all my broccoli! Love the stuff, 'specially homegrown!

I get calcium from raw whole milk... lots of vitamins in the homegrown veggies... maybe I'm already getting all the good stuff, and then along comes PM and... pow! Because that's pretty much what happened.

Now I'm curious. Maybe we could examine overall diet as one of the factors influencing breast growth? Mind you, it would probably be more holistic than reductionist -- not a matter of "eat this one thing every day and it will do x" but more "give your body these good things, these building blocks, and as your health improves, your body will more readily do what your mind wants it to do."

Because, really, deep down... your mind does have that kind of power, if you learn it. How do we know? The universal drug is placebo. Every study conducted, ever, shows placebo working for a certain number of people. For every disease known to man, from cancer to menstrual cramps. Placebo actually works better against depression than Prozac, from the clinical trials. I'll bet some people have grown breasts on placebo.

I do love to see inquiring minds here! All these people trying things, reporting things, asking questions, describing results. It's definitely a far cry from forums where inquiry is verboten.

[Lotus]

Now I'm curious. Maybe we could examine overall diet as one of the factors influencing breast growth? Mind you, it would probably be more holistic than reductionist -- not a matter of "eat this one thing every day and it will do x" but more "give your body these good things, these building blocks, and as your health improves, your body will more readily do what your mind wants it to do.

I'm curious now too!, what are you proposing?

I do love to see inquiring minds here! All these people trying things, reporting things, asking questions, describing results. It's definitely a far cry from forums where inquiry is verboten.

Oh yeah!, it's pretty lively!

[Eloise]

"I do love to see inquiring minds here! All these people trying things, reporting things, asking questions, describing results. It's definitely a far cry from forums where inquiry is verboten."


Couldn't have said it better myself.