[Samantha Rogers]

Flame...I fear I have not been clear. Growing breasts comes from altering hormones. This is just fact. So if one is growing breasts then by the aforementioned definition, which is fairly well accepted among the broad community, one HAS begun transition. As I said, it isnt a question of whether or not people taking herbs are in "transition" (they are) it is rather a question of how far they will go. Many people begin altering hormonal balace (transition) and never go further, simply finding a place of comfort with that stage of transition and remaining there. Others go further. But regardless, once you start changing your hormones, like it or not, you ARE in transition. This is not opinion, but simple definition. The word "transition" is used to denote a process rather than a destination. So referring to NBE as a "partial transition" is, semantically, mixing apples and oranges in terms of definition.
Suppose you substitute the phrase "process of change" for the word "transition".
Then we have the idea that onc someone begins altering hormones they have begun a process of change. Far more acceptable I am sure to those who squirm at the idea that they are tinkering with transexuality by taking herbs. But in essence the meaning is the same.
Personally, I just prefer to keep calling a pig a pig.

[flamesabers]

Samantha,

My focus is on the interpretation of the word "transition" rather than the technical definition of it. To use an example, technically we are all dying as none of us are immortal. However, the term dying is typically reserved for those who have a terminal illness or are fatally injured. I understand I'm transitioning but not to the extent that I'm undergoing HRT, trying to pass as a female or have plans for SRS. I would say I'm transitioning much like I'm dying: I'll probably continue to present as male just as I plan to live for a few more decades at least.

Here's another analogy that's not quite as morbid. If femininity and masculinity were like two bordering nations, I wouldn't describe myself as a native or immigrant of either nation, but rather as a nomad or maybe a wanderer.

[GoneGirl]

According to Wikipedia.....

Transitioning is the process of changing one's gender presentation permanently to accord with one's internal sense of one's gender - the idea of what it means to be a man or a woman, or in-between. For transsexual people, this process typically involves sex reassignment therapy (which may include hormone replacement therapy and sex reassignment surgery), and their new sex is "opposite" that of their birth-assigned sex; for intersex people it is different from how they were raised; for gender queer people it is neither solely female nor male. Cross-dressers, drag queens, and drag kings tend not to transition, since their variant gender presentations are (usually) only adopted temporarily.


The bold emphasis is mine.

Since breast tissue is permanent, I would say that those of us who are taking herbs in a concerted effort to grow breasts to satisfy and project even a relatively mild female gender identity are transitioning.


Clara

[Lotus]

Why is this necessary?. Both sides are equally important, and quite frankly one is less interesting without the other. What we could do less of is misogyny, supremacy and egomania.

Btw, we're a community now, albeit a fun loving supportive group of people. And inside this group regardless of where you fall on the gender spectrum, we don't beat you over the head with our type of particular religion (insert the following name ) politics, wealth, religion, sexual orientation or even one's soul. New members are joining everyday, some cast-off from other sites that have less freedom of expression as here. Some are attracted to the uniqueness that you can talk about NBE and hrt on the forum and not be kicked off. So it really shouldn't matter where on the dail you sit, it matters that your here .......home....

Lets make the most of it.

[GoneGirl]

Well stated, Lotus.

[Samantha Rogers]

Lotus, honey, I meany no animosity toward anyone...Flame did you take it that way? I hope now...lol
I was merely trying to clear up semantics not issue a value judgement...c'mon...you know me better than that I hope...lol.

Generally, I really hate labels, but communication gets really tough without some standard definitions. I was merely trying to clarify the ones we use here, because it is easy to misuse language and in this whole business there is a lot of misunderstanding that goes on. Clarity is healthy, right?

[GoneGirl]

Sammie, clarity is good, and I regret to say that the changing terminology is muddying the waters. Old terms like transvestite, gender identity disorder, transgendered, sex reassignment surgery (SRS), and even transsexual have been replaced by cross dresser, gender dysphoria, transgender, gender confirmation surgery (GCS), and transwoman or transman.

Take the term "gender dysphoria" for example. It was originally used clinically to describe severe distress, anxiety, and depression in a person who feels they are not the gender they physically appear to be.

Many here claim to suffer gender dysphoria but admit to no desire to change gender presentation, and yet that is the prescribed treatment for GD according to WPATH and the SOC. So we now qualify the condition on a scale from "mild GD" to "strong GD". Is that helpful?

In some cases the desire to cross dress or grow breasts is driven by testosterone induced fetishism. Take away the T and the behavior disappears. Is that covered under the heading "gender dysphoria"? Some say yes, but for others, being tagged a fetishist is very offensive while identifying as transgender is becoming increasingly acceptable. In a PC sensitive society, clarity of meaning is often the first casualty.

It's no wonder that the transgender universe fragments into subgroups that tend to be exclusionary. It is not a monolithic community. I think it's refreshing to have a place like BN where diversity is tolerated, even welcomed.

Clara

[b.rose]

The problem is that the term "transition" is loose and means different things to different people. It is why I prefer to describe myself as a transsexual rather than transgender - I feel it is a more precise description of me and my journey. Other people may prefer other terms for their journeys but that is up to them.

"Transition" is indeed a process, but in my case it is four processes, namely:

1) Legal transition aka documents, birth certificates, etc
2) Social transition aka living as female 24/7
3) Psychological transition aka squishing GD out of my head
4) Medical transition aka HRT and GRS

Anyone on PM is doing number (3) and part of (4). My endo works in the world's largest GIC and has several thousand trans patients. He told me that PM was transitioning me physically because when he examined me I had breast tissue and my testicles had shrunk by 33% which meant I was certainly sterile by that point. He then moved me onto Decapeptyl and Progynova, but his message was clear. PM was transitioning my body and if I stayed on it for long enough then I would physically transition.

[Misty0732]

I believe the discussion is good and healthy, even though it has been hashed out before. There is a constant turn-over of members and even with old-timers memories can sometimes run short.

As long as we all remain respectful of each others' viewpoints and accepting of each others' goals I feel there is nothing but positives to gain from the conversations.

I was a little worried when I first posted that the viewpoint I presented might no longer be so well tolerated and was relieved when that proved not to be the case.

Happy New Year, everyone!

Misty

[flamesabers]

Lotus, honey, I meany no animosity toward anyone...Flame did you take it that way? I hope now...lol

I didn't feel any animosity from you or anyone else in this thread. I think it's just a friendly talk about the different interpretations of transitioning.

Happy New Year, everyone!

Same to you Misty.