[sfem]

Oh, so now the defense is saying they were only seeming to post about the topic under discussion. In reality, they imagined a scenario, and then railed against it, complete with instructions for the participants on what to do.

Would it be ok if I post my own example scenario? Please feel free to critique the story and/or the conclusions drawn from it.
Oh, and maybe this actually belongs in the Random Stuff forum at this point...

The Rightly Angry Wife
by P. Gut

A man ( who looks just like a real man ) knows he is not a real man. He deviously and for reasons related to low character ( not contagious ) hides this from everyone his whole life, gets married, has kids, and becomes educated, successful, wealthy. He has drive and ambition, and is really very smart, but never comes clean to his wife about how he is not a real man. After inventing a propulsion method that allows for travel to Mars, he and his wife blast off in the prototype vehicle his company built. After a few weeks of travel, in the solitude of the ship, he confesses to her that he is not a real man and never was. That's when the meteorite hits their engine module. As they plunge to the surface of mars, the previously hidden inhabitants ( who are all born as real men, but biologically transform to real women naturally shortly after puberty, then back again at menopause ) have heard his story from their atmospheric surveillance devices and they rescue the two from certain death. They take the humans underground and using the anal probes developed over many years of bovine research, transform him to a her. Their engines are repaired, their memory of anything but peacefully orbiting Mars before heading home, and their awareness of his previous sexual identity are all wiped from their memories. They safely return to earth. In this scenario, I really do think she has a right to be angry with him. After all, he should have known about that meteorite.

[MissC]

It all comes down to who you chose to represent yourself as and what you allowed others believe using deception under the guise of self protection. At the end of it all it is still lying and yes; omission of the truth is still lying. You lied to yourself, you lied to your mate, and now after it's eating away at your conscious you just finally come clean.

What they don't seem to be grasping... is that it doesn't mean you're a bad person. Everyone wants to take this as a personal insult, but it's not. Yes, you (whoever) lied to your wife for 20 years -- we do understand why you did it, and that it came from a place of fear, and that it should be forgiven -- but they also need to understand what it feels like for the spouse. Empathy is a two-way street.

This is why I have chosen to remain single since I have been 22 years old (yup, that is 15 years and counting now; I don't even remember what it feels like to have intimacy) because I could not live with myself knowing I was running a lie.

I haven't given up intimacy, but I have, to this point anyway, avoided marriage, knowing that I was not psychologically ready for it. That may change, but I aim to have all my proverbial shit in one pile before it happens. Although, given that I come from polyamorous circles, anything could happen. I'd be okay with a Heinlein-inspired plural marriage of some sort... perfect for the bisexual with ADD....

You are never good enough for either side destined to be alone. You try to be one of the guys and your basically branded a homosexual from the start because of how you act. You try to be one the girls and your some pervert.

I consider myself to be "in-between", precisely because I am not comfortable at the ends -- all man or all woman. I'm too old to care if guys think I'm gay, and don't have to care what they think about it -- I don't live in the Bible belt. I nevertheless still have my most valued male friends... and I have a wonderful group of women to be part of, too.

Being in the middle is not an easy road, to be sure, but I don't see an easier path for me, either.

I'm sure there are some people that are accepting but I am sure it is a small number.

If you don't find people to be accepting of you, then you're running with the wrong crowd. If you live anywhere with more than 20,000 people, there are plenty of weirdos who will welcome you into whatever silliness they do. Meetups, Facebook groups, and FetLife are ways to find them.

I'm fortunate to live in a vibrant, progressive city in a very libertarian state, with plenty of social circles to participate in.

Just be honest about who you are and what you want. Don't expect everyone to accept it because they wont. The world is a very cold and cruel place and has never been fair. I suggest we all get real used to it.

This!! I don't realistically expect everyone to accept me and like me. That's fine. What I do expect is that people will follow the laws -- people are free to dislike me, but not to assault me. I may make some poor religious schlub sick to his stomach, but he's not allowed to discriminate against me. C'est la vie.

I usually find that when I treat other people with openness and respect, they do the same for me. I get back the politeness I extend. It's very rare that I just get bad vibes back, but when I do, I make it a point to leave the situation.

Basically, I just behave myself in a cultured and civilized manner, just like any human should. People respond to that.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world," said the man.

[SarahSchilling]

Hehehe fetlife...

Glad to see you around miss c!!!!



I think some are saying that they didn't know about their gender issues at all before getting married. I mean it's hard for me to imagine not knowing by then personally, but to each their own!

[GoneGirl]

I think some are saying that they didn't know about their gender issues at all before getting married. I mean it's hard for me to imagine not knowing by then personally, but to each their own!

I didn't know, Sarah.

Oh, I knew that something wasn't right, but I couldn't, or wouldn't, put a label on it. I didn't know anything about transgenderism. It's called denial.

I think cross gender identity can live in one's subconscious and cause problems that are not consciously understood. That was me.

When it finally bubbled to my conscious mind, and I began to understand what it means to be transgender, I started to connect the dots from my past, and a pattern emerged that unmistakably pointed to my being TG.

Gender confusion is a complex and difficult to resolve condition which has only very recently been afford any serious attention. I think we have to be very careful about accusing people of deception and malintent for entering into a marriage not informing their partner of gender issues which years ago were not even spoken of.

Clara

[SarahSchilling]

It's only hard for me to imagine since I knew from such an early age who I wanted to be. I'm not saying I doubt the possibility of a person being unaware.

Only an egotistical fool would make broad generalizations about the experiences of other people based solely on their own.

[MissC]

I think we have to be very careful about accusing people of deception and malintent for entering into a marriage not informing their partner of gender issues which years ago were not even spoken of.

No one has accused anyone of malicious intent in deceiving their spouse. You're tilting at a straw windmill.

Lying, deception, omission; yes. But not malicious intent. It's very bad behavior, but without motive.

It's the behavior I call out. When there is relationship conflict, this needs to be understood, and admitted to.

Just using you as an example (since I've never been married), say you didn't really know the depths of your soul back when you got married. Say you didn't choose to deceive her, but now you've dumped this thing in her lap and she's upset.

Your history then of having not been honest with your wife becomes clear, and it's clearly what we would call bad behavior, no? It's forgivable, and you didn't mean to, but it's still pretty damn bad.

That's the part some of you aren't copping to.

And look, I do know a thing or two about bad behavior. It takes one to know one, as they say... and I also know full well that all kinds of things cause people to behave badly without meaning to -- such as childhood trauma.

I'm just saying, get it out in the open, and quit trying to make excuses and deny stuff. I mean, I can blame my parents for my er... issues... but in the end, the only one with the responsibility to fix them is... me.

Me, I've still got plenty of baggage to sort through. I found it got easier, though, when I quit lying to myself.

[MissC]

I think some are saying that they didn't know about their gender issues at all before getting married.

That may be true in a few cases, but the overwhelming majority of us gender-nonconforming types report knowing it well before the onset of puberty. I didn't know how or why I was different, just that I was... and it was well before middle school.

But the sheer number of these discussions I have seen on the internet... it doesn't jibe with that statistic!

So, I don't really think there are suddenly thousands of cases of late-onset gender non-conformity. I believe that in most cases is a cop-out.

However: someone may know of their issues, and innocently believe they can put them aside for a spouse. That's definitely a mistake, but everyone makes mistakes at times.

I think the vast majority know... but don't think through the consequences of their decisions.


Oh... and howdy! I hope you are healing well, and soon off to find your nirvana.

[GoneGirl]

Bad behavior would be someone who's sexually promiscuous, has run the risk of contracting some form of VD, and doesn't care if he passes it along to his next partner.

The equivalent would be to know or strongly suspect you are transgender, realize that it could present a problem down the line, but get married anyway without telling your partner, and just walk away from the marriage when things blow up. Who would do such a thing? That's not the way it works.

I view it more like falling in love with person and deciding to marry paying no mind to the fact that there's a family history of cancer, alcoholism, Alzheimers, or some other genetic medical condition that could present difficult problems in the future marriage. And if at some point that genetic susceptibility manifests itself, is resentment and blame an appropriate response? Few would think so.

We apply a double-standard though when it comes to being transgender. It's not like other medical conditions. Oh no! This one is shameful and stigmatizing, like leprosy, cancer, mental illness, and AIDS once were.

We as a society need to get over that perception. That's why I object to all this talk about the transgender person being selfish, insensitive, and bearing sole responsibility for his or her condition.

I really wish we would stop judging others, especially when not having walked in their shoes.

Clara

[Miranda-nata-est]

I really wish we would stop judging others, especially when not having walked in their shoes.

Clara

I so, so agree - why can people not see that their views are only a product of their own life experiences and that others life histories lead them to different, equally valid positions?

I think I might have answered that, well for myself anyway, in a reply in the original post.


Miranda

[SarahSchilling]

Oh... and howdy! I hope you are healing well, and soon off to find your nirvana.

Thanks! I'm healing well and everything is going great. I don't know about nirvana, but I'm already quite happy! :-)