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Weight Loss and Breast Growth

#21

Hi, Elaine!
Thank you for volunteering!

So, quick overview of where i'm thinking:
We need to target butt most of all for hypertrophy.
We want to reduce the rest of the musculature.
We want to burn fat as well, down to a MAXIMUM fat percentage of 20%, and retained in a female pattern.
Upper body size and muscularity especially is "the enemy."

Jogging will be important, too, as the steady-state cardio munches muscle.

We want limited equipment needs, too.

So, now I need to look at a day of hypertrophy training for the butt, a day of yoga, a day of light-weight power movements (retain some strength), and a good deal of diet manipulation.

I'll try to do that over the next week - I'll have some time, it's a "vacation" week (which also has to go to getting Java certified, or my performance review will suck.) AngryHuhSad
And I'm visiting Mom, which will mean a LOT of long conversations (no, not coming out, but we hash a lot of politics and "state of the world.")

Let's think Yoga for fat loss (got that one provided), heavy weights for lower body (squats) for one day a week, and lots of stretching and dance movements 3 days a week (I am deficient here!), and then "Butt and Ab day." Butt hypertrophy, ab strengthening with anti-rotation, stability type exercises: High Plank if possible; Side Plank if possible. Glute bridge, lying leg raises, and hip mobility stretch: think a walking lunge, but you push the leg farther forward or back, and hold to lengthen the hip flexors, I think it was. Also need to look at posture there, anterior hip tilt affects us badly.

Jogging when possible, and high-heel "fasted cardio" pre-breakfast at slow speeds. Just looking to draw the calories from fat.

That's where my head's at; I'll refine it from there into a coherent program, and we'll work it together, OK? :-) (Got to drink my own kool-aid, anything less is immoral!)

I'm also thinking the Yoga/ Pilates approach might be THE BEST overall, but I can't figure out how to make hypertrophy work with them. :-( Research for that will help.

Walking in heels would be great, too, I think - make us learn to walk well in heels. Also need to do it as a "Multiple choice" method, so prioritize "effect X" and do "this program." Probably Fat loss; Muscle loss; Flexibility; hypertrophy/gain of targeted muscles. And maintain some strength throughout. Can't be a weakling, but we could settle for "Girl strong."

Let me know what you think of the direction and priorities. Weekend will be a bust (moving someone to Jersey), but I will have time next week. I'd make it an ebook and sell it, but... Tongue I'm not "an expert", I only have some 25+ years reading and doing. And this IS a niche market, anyway... ;-)

Maybe a Femdomme site would like it? Or a Female-Led Marriage site? "How to femme your hubby (Boyfriend) with exercise and supplements, while making her want you even more"? Tongue Smile Blush
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#22

Well, I don't have any weight access other than my wife's dumbells. Has 5lb and 10 lb.

What if I start with squats now. should I do daily like 10 first week then work up to two sets of ten after another week then go to three and hold?

already planning on starting back to my three day diet after holidays.
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#23

Hi, Elaine!
Thank you for volunteering...
Now I end up dropping the ball, as the proverbial bovine excrement hits the rotary oscillating device.

I'll get online again later this evening, I hope.
I'm planning a focus on stretching, and building the butt.

After that, it will get interesting. ;-)

-Jean
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#24

Hello, Elaine.

Got a bit sidetracked here, and I'm concerned I'm going off the wrong way. What I have needs serious review and revision, so it's not "program ready" yet. This is a start point, intended to get everyone more active throughout the day, which helps us go slightly ketogenic (fat-burning). Coupled with correct diet, it would likely work. I don't have the insulin part down at all; it's "easy" in one sense, and impossible in another. During the womanly period part, use Testosterone and food manipulation to make the body consume muscle mass and male-pattern fat more than the female-specific fat. Use periods of high estrogen with a high insulin level (think carbs and fat together, and a little over-eating) to store the fat "selectively" in female patterns.

So, Luteal phase would be hard, heavy workouts, for hours, with limited protein in the "anabolic window" (usually half hour or so after working out; just means that you'll have some catabolism, or breakdown, of muscle tissues during that time, but protein and some simple sugars stop that, and make the body start rebuilding instead.) This would work to reduce muscle. It's also a low-carb eating period, and NO SUGARS. Fruit, too. Creamers. Starbucks liquid candy bars. Etc. Manage stress (Cortisol causes gut fat.)

Follicular phase would then be rougher still, with higher than "normal" estrogen, and a high-fat, high-carb (fruits and sugars) diet. High E makes the body deposit fat on breasts and hips, but also rear triceps (upper back of arm), and "pooch". OK if you're bony, not so much if you're already rotund...

Training during this phase we'd want to try lighter weights for reps (toning), but long duration (with lots of off days, too, to avoid repetitive stress injuries.)

But that all feels like I'm going HARDCORE MAN on this problem....

So I'm a little defeated, in a sense.

Further, here's the exercise information: (I started this and had to reconsider, it's here to assist to my best ability, and we refine going forward.)

Hi, Elaine, and everyone.
Back from Thanksgiving week.... Spent time with Mom. She liked having someone else in the house.
But, I got no real time to correctly manage things, do research, etc.

So no document, but list of exercises, and I'll refine it this week further.
Focuses are:
- Fat burning
- Butt building
- Flexibility and versatility

Daily:
Heels walk:
Walk on treadmill (or outside) for at least 1 mile, before eating in the morning (burns fat directly, no glycogen in the muscles) [You can conceal women's heels inside men's boots, possibly hi-top sneakers as well - so you can practice walking in heels with no one the wiser...] (Try for an hour at 3.0 pace, objective is slow and continuous, unless you need to burn muscle.)

Jogging:
Try to do 30 minutes of jogging daily, it will get the musculature to "break down" from the masculine hardness. See this: https://www.t-nation.com/training/jogging-delusion

Stretching:
Just listing these; need to flesh it out further.
1
Perform two sets of hip flexor stretches for sixty-second static holds, progressing deeper into the stretch as time ensues.

2
Stretch the butt by crossing one leg over the other, at a 90 degree angle, and pulling it up towards your chest or head. This means:
Lie on back.
Place right leg over left leg, crossing your right ankle onto your left knee.
Your legs should resemble a figure-4.
Bring the left leg UP to be perpendicular to the floor.
Left leg can bend at knee, as long as the right ankle stays locked on the left knee.
Hold for at least 2 30-second counts per leg, & alternate legs. You should feel a SLIGHT pull in your butt, Gluteus Maximus. DO NOT force it.

3.
Hamstring stretch
A. Legs together, Touch your toes. [Place hands on knees if needed; push to keep knees STRAIGHT, but not hyperextended. Relax into the stretch. Use hands on knees for support of upper body as needed.] Hold 30 seconds.

B. Spread legs apart to should width. Stretch as above, to right foot; then, to left foot. Hold each of those stretches 30 seconds. Repeat, trying to stretch JUST a little farther. Try also to keep spine straight (neutral).

C. Russian Split: [BE CAREFUL, do NOT do this where you can slide. E.G., no socks on carpet or waxed floors!]
Push legs as far apart as you comfortably can. Hold body erect for 30 seconds, then lean forward, hands on ground to support upper body, 30 seconds. Then, try to reach to left ankle/foot, and hold for 30 seconds. Repeat to right ankle/foot. Return to center for 30 seconds. return torso upright.
Try to settle your legs a tiny bit farther apart, hold for 30 seconds, and if possible, if you feel safe, try the center stretch, and the side stretches, again. DO NOT PUSH TOO HARD ON THIS ONE, you can get badly hurt. Nothing like a torn adductor or hamstring, or achilles tendon to put a damper on fitness and breast growth, both!

Sit back on your butt, and spread the legs - still continuing the Russian split.
Bring ear to knee on each side, stretching the sides. Hold for 30 seconds each side. This is a seated side bend while doing a "sort of" split, unless you're REALLY flexible.

4
Calf stretch:
Given the heels walk, make it a point to stretch the achilles tendon at least once every day. Better to do some more, unless you want to wear heels all the time. If the tendon starts to shrink, it'll be the devil in hell to get it back to normal length.
- Stand on a step or curb, with heels hanging off the edge, and hold on to a fixed structure.
- Let the heels descend as low as possible, & hold for 30 seconds. Do one leg at a time.
- Alternate: If there's an issue with that version, you can use a book or brick or similar, and stand on the ground, while placing your weight on both legs. One foot is flat, one foot has toes elevated on the book/brick/whatever. Twist hips slightly (like a degree, minor twist) to engage the muscles a little more, the pressure should be along the back of the calf, down the achilles tendon.


Three times a week:
Build the butt: rest 30 seconds between sets
(Note, you can also do situps between these exercises to pull blood into the abs. When combined with aerobic-paced lifts, it should help whittle the middle a little faster.)
Squats: 1 sets X 10 reps, more sets if possible
- Do a Box Squat rather than regular barbell squats
- Box Squat has you push your butt out to sit back. This will hit the butt more than a standard vertical barbell squat, where you go down, then explode out of the hole.
- Start with body weight
- Clench the butt a bit, engage the butt and leg muscles, and engage the abs.
- Sit back to the box, which should be at a height just below where your legs are parallel to the floor
- Squeeze the butt muscles at the "sit" point, then return to standing.
- Slow, controlled motions
- See http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/build-sh...dlift.html for more info on the "butt goes back" form.


"Front squats" (Actually, Goblet squats): 1 set of 10 reps, more if possible
- Women tend to be a bit quad-dominant, which changes their motions and physique. We'll emulate that....
- Grab a "decent" weight. Try for a 10-pound barbel or kettlebell.
- Perform a Goblet Squat (Keeps the weight forward - you DO NOT stick your butt out here! Just straight up and down.)
- Keep abs tight during the movement
- Try to "explode" upwards, but drop down to the ground slowly (This is an eccentric, or negative, motion - has the best strength gains, BTW.)

Butt-specific exercises:
Drawing from this article: https://www.t-nation.com/training/dispel...glute-myth

Do 1 set of each: (1 set 10 reps)
Glute Bridge (Squeeze butt at top)
Bird Dog (Squeeze butt at full extension)
Fire Hydrant (aka Dirty Dog) (See http://www.livestrong.com/article/101159...ter-booty/, it’s also on the t-Nation site.)
Hip Thrust (engages the most butt muscles, so great hypertrophy here; see the t-nation article.)

Stretch the butt after that series. Legs straight forward, try to hug the knees with arms going under the legs, and legs remaining on floor. I.E., head to knees, try to get a bend at the hips, not the waist. It's actually pretty tough, and gets moreso as you're ... Well, like me, too effing fat. ;-)
Also do a brief hip flexor stretch, and then go to a hamstring stretch: From hip flexor stance, front leg goes to a heel out, toe up position; hold for 30 seconds. Repeat on other side.

Go to side lunges or speed skaters to get the Gluteus Medius.
See: http://www.livestrong.com/article/101159...ter-booty/
Side lunges should be included either way, for strength of the legs. It'll make a stronger ankle and knee.
Speed Skaters require a slick surface, which is usually available at a gym, but not sure about "improvising" it. I'm nervous about a tile floor and socks, for example, so be careful.

Crescent Kicks:
See http://www.livestrong.com/article/101159...ter-booty/, it's #6.

Sumo Squats: 1 set of 10
- Uses the butt nicely, so we can build it a little more.
- Use a 10-pound dumbbell if possible, or even 10 pounds each arm
- Slow, quality reps.
- Wide stance on the legs, they should be as close to the plane of the body as you can manage, and feet wider than shoulders, wider the better.
- Keep back straight, grasp weights at the bottom of the movement, which is also the Start position.
- Stand up using the butt to pull you upright. Think like an ape: Back goes up, arms follow. Weights are just along for the ride.

Situps: 1 set of 12
(Can be done between the other exercises, too, to help whittle the middle more.)
- Keep legs flat on floor, extended. Cross arms across the chest, right hand to left shoulder, left hand to right shoulder.
- Tense/tighten the abs.
- “Sit up.” You’ll likely feel the tension in your abs, but a pull in the upper legs or hips. Hip muscles are heavily engaged, don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about rounding the back, that’s normal and acceptable. Pulling the head is NOT, which is why I say to cross the arms on your chest.
- This one’s a marathon, NOT a sprint. Slow negatives, as you return to the floor, are great. They’ll keep the muscles under tension longer, which makes for a stronger muscle. BUT, this can also build size – so keep a close watch here.
- If you have a half-roller or small swiss ball (Not sure the exact name), you can elevate the hips a little, which gives you a better chance to lengthen the abs and go into negative territory. This will give you a better ab section, by ending the tension in a slightly stretched state.

Leg raise NEGATIVES: 1 set of 15
I’m sure there’s a name for this, but I don’t know it.
- Lie on back on ground or bench.
- Bring knees to chest, bending legs.
- Straighten legs up in the air, make them perpendicular to the ground.
- Lower the legs slowly.

Vaccuum: Start at 1 rep, 5 seconds. Build to sets of 5-10, and try to hold without air for a longer duration, too.
- Start supine on the floor, lying on back.
- Exhale all air from the lungs
- Draw the abs to the back, while pulling the diaphragm as if inhaling. DO NOT breathe in – the purpose is to contract the ab muscles and keep them tight, while pulling inwards. This will keep a tight midsection all the time.
- Advanced forms:
- While sitting, as above.
- While standing, as above.

Waist twists: 20 to each side
As Pinnocchia said elsewhere, a broom handle or bar across the back, and twist from side to side, try to stretch to each side.


I also see an excellent routine from Pom back on the early pages (Page 1, bottom) of the Exercise thread:
http://www.fitnessmagazine.com/workout/b...es/?page=1


I see I’m on 7 pages, I think I’m overdoing it. But I think this should serve to get us into excellent condition, and focus on what we want most to grow, while also allowing for the fact we don’t work like our idolized feminine counterparts… We need to do more work, in some ways, to build the weaker spots.


+++++

Adding more still:
I think we want to avoid a "roulette wheel" of exercises.
E.G., Yoga Monday, Tabata Tuesday, Weights Wednesday, Cardio Thursday, Pilates Friday. Hard to make progress that way. By incorporating the habits into daily life, we get fitter overall, without killing ourselves on any given day. And we'll elevate metabolism more, alleviate boredom, probably make a much better body... but will it be feminine?

And what then are the pitfalls we don't know about? E.G., we get the muscles to break down, and starve them for a bit, and then when they do recover... Will we be too weak going into the next Luteal (or follicular) phase? How do we make sure we're OK? Just use light weights? Take a gamble? (Not fond of gambles.)

How do you feel about multiple short exercise periods in the day? E.G., Get up, do "exercises", go to work; at lunch, take a break and "exercises", and then back to work with lunch; then, after work, "exercises", dinner, time off, "exercises", bed. that's looking kind of regimented, very disciplined.
And even if each exercises session is only 15 minutes, it's an hour a day, and we still need to vary things through the week, and then change it up for the phase shifts.... :-P

I'll keep pondering it. For now, keep doing squats, go for slow and controlled box squats, as mentioned above, and Sumo squats.

Diet needs to shift to more vegetables, but red meat is necessary during that Luteal phase (even for us). We'll be chewing up blood during that time, too, with heavy lifts and some unhappy muscles.

I also don't have a good idea on putting dance in the program, and belly dance would be GREAT for us, as it opens the hips and promotes feminine movement...

I'll keep digging and assembling.

-Jean
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#25

wow, that's a lot of different exercises.
Right now I'm just concentrating on doing my 10 squats a day. It has gotten much easier. Perhaps I'll add another set of 10 after end of the month.
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#26

Awesome, Elaine!
Just keep going!

This is where I go "man mode," I guess, but one of the things I despise MOST in the world is someone who starts things, gets good results, and then just decides "I don't feel like it." I mean, they note the improvement, they feel better, act better, and they're growing and improving.... and they just STOP. Because.
Not because there was something else more important, or another activity to replace the already good one, or an emergency, or an injury, or ... ANYTHING. Just, "Can't be bothered." Quitters.

Simple comparison: NBE
Stated desire, did research, started, got results, and then -
A. Improved program, went to completion, etc. (Winner)

B. Couldn't afford herbs, or had bad results, or decided it really wasn't working mentally or such (Made a decision, regardless of reason; OK)

C. Didn't bother making measurements, didn't bother replacing herbs, still wants breasts, but unwilling to do the massage or get the herbs (Quitter)

+++
Try the slow box squats to try and form the butt. Keep legs a little closer, and push the but out as you sit back. Squeeze cheeks, and return to upper position. Sets of 10 as you can, add some sets as you go. (Don't just keep going, the exertion has to come in waves.)

If you go googling, there's a "squat every day" challenge for the ladies. :-) Figure you're working it that way, and you'll soon be the queen. ;-)

And then you just keep practicing.

Awesome results will come.
-Jean
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#27

In one of the links you posted earlier......the point was made that the gluteus was a very large and sleeper of a muscle and you can make it larger with exercise. That's what I'm trying to do. One of my recent lovers remarked about my butt looking good.
That's very encouraging! Tongue
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#28

So, we have a bunch of threads now about exercise, and to be honest...
Mostly because of ME...

It's getting to look like a bodybuilding forum here and there. Sad

I guess because that's my background.

I have to accept an unhappy truth...

We can't work out like men, and try to look like women. Just don't work.

I tried to workout yesterday with far lower weights (E.G., 60 pounds for the squat, no increase.) Push harder, rest less, etc.
Wiped me out. I was done with the workout sooner, but didn't feel that great. When I do heavy weights, I at least feel some accomplishment. When I do light weights, I feel wiped. Unless I go to girl weights....

(Lightbulb comes on)

So, technique, etc, is good.... Heavy can be good....
But the exertion is producing wrong result, so... Follow the plans that help a woman sculpt the parts she wants?

I feel defeated there, but maybe that's a necessary step?

After all, there's this one:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=22772 (Feminize back/chest shape)

From the thread "Physical Strength" @ http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=24326:

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.ph...t=strength
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.ph...t=strength
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=14442
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.ph...pid=140896


I knew I had to focus on the bottom of the body, especially the butt, but.. I need to now tinker with details. I have broad knees, for instance, from the squatting. (Given the weight, go figure!) But, that doesn't work along the whole leg - and a wider knee, with a smaller upper thigh? That's a tell. So I need to really research it and see when and where certain muscles are affected. E.G., Gluteus Medius helps to make the hip line more feminine, but growing that specific muscle with squats, say, is impossible - just doesn't hit the muscle. Nor do deadlifts, nor running or sprinting, or (almost every other exercise).

And I'm noticing the hamstrings aren't right - not fast enough, not able to endure enough. going up 3 flights of stairs, or dragging a box, and those muscles are screaming! (Also means I'm not diverse enough in exercises and exercise modalities.)

I just don't feel right giving up ANY strength. Mass, sure - if I could get to "strongman" strength with pipe-cleaner arms, great! but that's not possible.

I'll keep tinkering and experimenting, though, and let everyone know.

Meantime, I think the butt articles, and bodyweight exercises (including squats) are still essential, and I do know how to make stretching a major workout - which would help shape our usually unfeminine upper body, though how MUCH it'll do to alleviate bulk, I cannot even speculate. Dance for aerobics, stretching for upper body, bulking certain muscles, and lots of fat burn with that diet modulation? That's a full year of experimenting and documenting by itself, I think.
New Year's Resolution, maybe? Big Grin

-Jean
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#29

Realise this post has become more about exercise, but thought you might appreciate hearing about what I am experiencing on the weight loss side of the equation.

Before I started my NBE I had a successful weight loss programme in place and managed to loose over 45lbs in just a few months. Once I got started, that slowed but wasn't too worried as I seemed to be gaining in the areas I wanted. However, it was becoming apparent that it wasn't just the girly bits that were growing it was the male bits as well!!!

So..... as an experiment I went cold turkey and just took reishi and v low dose FG to maintain things. In part to confirm another line of thought I had, but also to find out what was happening to my weight. Guess what? It started to creep down again.

But then I started to get a bit of boobie greed and as I thought I had learned what I needed, I carefully adjusted what I was going to do and got back on the programme! Woohoo! Except, not woohoo.

In spite of my calorie intake and exercise now at a level that from past experience should have some serious weight falling off me, it isn't. I have just done a weigh-n-measure, and everything has shot up! To say I am disheartened would be an understatement.

I knew that tipping the hormone balance over to boobie growth would make weight loss harder. I accepted that and just reasoned it would take me a bit longer, but at least I would be making NBE progress at the same time. However it appears that (for me at least) it's going to be a simple choice. Loose the weight or do NBE. Seems I cannot do both!

Now I realise we are all different and I suspect I may be at the extreme end of this. But my experience does show that shifting the hormone levels into the girly zone does make weight loss harder and perhaps keeping a closer eye on testosterone levels might be an idea? It's been shown that low T can cause depression and lethargy and lower stamina as well as make towards weight gain. Perhaps in our drive for boobs n curves we could be making things more difficult that we need to?

I will be honest, I am sitting here staring at the screen not really wanting to contemplate the implications but it looks like I have some serious thinking to do. But the hard fact is I need to get my weight down for health, and I have to say that although I am making real progress in the chestal area, having them sitting on top of a very male belly is not quite the effect I was hoping for. Not a happy bunny at the mo :-(

Huggy
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#30

Huggy,
Sorry to say, we're in the same boat.
Although the woman likes the results of the gym, commented I was getting very strong and it was a turn-on...
I'd rather keep the muscle and burn the fat. Worried about the hormonal effects, though, meaning how to accomplish it while adding E to the body and suppressing T...
Oh, and I can't use fat burners, it MUST be done via actual effort. Time to search :-)nation on body comp training. ? Triumph of hope over experience, maybe, going there...
-Jean
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