The impression I got from the literature was that SV is more a hormone potentiator than a source of phytoestrogen.

Hi Annabel,

If you don't mind I'd like to read the literature if you still have it. As with anything you'll find conflicting info. It's our responsibility to find all the relative findings (overwhelming) and then make the best choice.

You have all the right conditions for optimal breast growth, at least according to the research I have, age, low T, and BMI. I think we're missing some of the conversion process on the E (aromatase) and think not to over do it with E, just hold on long enough to it as to attach to the receptors.(PABA)......(Info on ER on Bio-Male guide)

Gabapentin can be administered up to 3200 mg. daily, which I've done when the pain is off the charts, just be prepared for nodding off!. Imo gabapentin didn't hurt breast growth in my situation.


All the best

It just goes to show that one shouldn't rely too much on ones memory (or I shouldn't rely on my memory). Try the following references:

http://examine.com/supplements/asparagus+racemosus/
http://www.apjtcm.com/zz/20133/16.pdf
http://www.ijpba.info/ijpba/index.php/ijpba/article/download/305/220

None fully supports what I said. I'm sure there was something, but if I can't find it I can't rely on it! Nonetheless, SV doesn't seem to be a major source of phytoestrogens.

My main concern with my peripheral neuropathy recently has been more with numbness, paraesthesia (typically undue pain from very minor injuries or irritations on my legs and feet) and risk of trips and falls due to loss of motor control and inadequate sensory and positional feedback to my brain from my feet, than with severe pain, although that was really bad 7-8 years back, and I now sometimes get sciatica - or more accurately something similar involving the femoral nerve(s) - which can be a problem. Oddly, my mother told me that in about 1937 my father suffered a very bad and sustained attack of sciatica, the treatment for which was to extract his teeth. So I wonder whether there is anything hereditary here. It's not just fine motor control, occasionally the thigh muscles in one leg will fail to respond and it will fold up under me particularly if I haven't been moving around enough. In stand-up social situations I try to find some thing to lean against or prop my backside on so as to avoid problems, but even dawdling around a supermarket may provoke the same reaction. Usually there is some pain to provide an advance warning. I have various other observations but have wandered far too far OT already, although I hope that gabapentin does have relevance to breast growth even if not strictly NBE.

Thank you again and keep up the information flow - you're doing a great job.

Thanks AP,

I completely understand your concerns and can even relate to the pain, especially the sciatica. Thank you for the links, and have to say that it's your thread, lead us whichever way you want! We enjoy your wit!

I don't seem to have updated this for some time, so here goes. The program is basically unchanged, particularly in respect of PM and PC. Iam still using shatavari in preference to fenugreek, and have upped the horse chestnut to three times a day. The gabapentin proved to be a disaster, bringing on severe edema without any compensating benefits, so it is gone. In fact, part of the problem may have arisen some time ago when the ramipril I was taking in conjunction with furosemide (Lasix) as a diuretic was changed to a combination ramipril/HCTZ pill that was less expensive. The HTCZ was less effective than the Lasix, and I have recently reverted to using the separate Lasix which has been a definite improvement. Pricing changes have in any case largely eliminated the cost advantage of the combined pill. I am also now taking horse chestnut three times daily although that may not now be necessary with the change in diuretic. Although not strictly breast related, I am taking about 7.5 grams daily of psyllium powder, which may have various benefits. Not only does it provide a lot of dietary fibre, but it also stabilizes the action of my shortened colon and acts as a sequestrator of excess bile acids. Additionally it helps regulate blood lipid levels (mine are in fact acceptable but definitely not optimum) without the side effects of statins. I am also now taking PABA.

By way of further update, I have since the beginning of June being using the Tupler system in the hope of dealing with the diastasis recti which , probably triggered by my gall bladder surgery in 2012,caused a wide separation of the upper ends of my rectus (six-pack) muscles and a resultant substantial increase in the girth of my upper abdomen which did not respond significantly to conventional cinchers. The system uses a 'splint', a specially designed cincher which aims to bring together the separated rectus muscles so as hopefully to reverse the stretching of the linea alba, the band of gristle that connects them, although it does not claim to repair actual tears or ruptures, which require non-trivial and not always successful surgery. The accompanying quite time consuming exercise program is designed to strengthen the lateral muscles surrounding the front and back of the abdominal cavity so as to resist forces tending to draw apart the rectus muscles and relieve the stress on the linea alba, and there are various caveats and techniques to avoid movements tending to force the rectus muscles apart. Thus sitting up and lying down must avoid any forceful forward movement, and certain activities such as golf are to be avoided.

The results to date have been amazing. There was in a few days a reduction of several inches in the girth of my upper abdomen so that my 'natural waist' reappeared, and my natural waist when I draw my stomach right in as far as possible is now down to 34.5 ", whereas my starting girth was 43", all this in just 9 weeks. The splint, which as far as possible is supposed to be worn 24/7, seems to have reduced my appetite and my weight has fallen further, even briefly below 200lbs. It is however quite uncomfortable to wear. Since breast massage with the splint on is difficult, I have reduced this to one 400 rotation session during the hour or so I take the splint off in the morning to shower, etc.

Although I now have a significantly hourglass figure, the waist reduction is not without penalty. I now have a pot belly below my navel that was not there before, and when I draw in my waist hard, my below bust measurement increases from 42" to 43.5" which does nothing to improve the presentation of my breasts (back on topic at last ) even though they fill a 38B or in one case C quite nicely with an extender. In fact, even without drawing in my stomach, the lower edges of my rib cage are far too prominent, and quite a lot of boob boosting would still not overcome this problem. Any ideas, anyone? My above bust measurement just below the armpits is 39" so the downward flare (as opposed to taper) of my rib cage is considerable, particularly near the bottom. No elastic cincher is strong enough to compress it effectively.

In order to promote the generation of collagen to help repair the linea alba, I have started taking MSM which is popularly alleged to have that function, although (thank you, Lotus) there does not seem to be scientific data to support this. I have no idea whether it is effective for that purpose, but it does at least seem to be doing wonders for my back aches.

Since my last post, I had a long discussion on Thursday with a very TG knowledgeable and friendly counsellor, who confirmed that there is indeed a clinic only two hours drive away that now arranges occasional transgender clinics, with appropriately experienced professionals (psychologist, doctor, etc.) on tap. I now have an appointment for the next session which is not until October 1. Yesterday I had an appointment with the endocrinologist at our regional hospital, who confirmed that the tests done a little while back showed both my testosterone and SHBG (I think, he didn't actually specify and I wondered afterwards whether it might have been LH) levels were too low to measure, presumably making it meaningless to calculate free T. He is ordering a cat scan of the region of my pituitary gland to check that all is well there, a bone density test, and referring me back to my cardiologist, I think to check that my cardiac condition is good enough for conventional E2 HRT. He was aware of PM and not bothered that I was taking it. He is however having me put back on spiro, I don't yet know how much. While I'm not clear what this may achieve when I haven't any T to counteract, it is a diuretic as well and will probably help with my legs. While the furosemide that I am already taking is better than the HCTZ I was taking before, some further reduction of water retention should be helpful.

It's been quite a while since I updated this. I have now been on 50mg Spiro twice daily and 2mg micronised estradiol for the past two months, and have reduced my pm dose to 2.5g of powder once daily. The HRT produced a rapid reaction even after the first week, sufficient to produce spontaneous comment from my DW, but progress since has been less noticeable. In fact I am now finding breast growth, although welcome, much less important than bringing my body as a whole more into harmony with my true (female) gender, and this may therefore well be my last post in this thread.

Just a minimal update, since I am still on PM and also have always regarded bio-identical estradiol as also being essentially 'natural'. I do seem to have achieved some further breast growth and am not far off filling a 42B bra. Furthermore, I firmly believe that the PM is responsible for my latest hormone level tests continuing to show that my testosterone, FSH and LH levels all being not only low but too low to measure. The same effect has been reported by some others who have continued using PM alongside prescription HRT. I'm sure it helps make my still low (2mg) dose of estradiol more effective. The test showed a level of 363 pmol/L.

Just a minimal update, since I am still on PM and also have always regarded bio-identical estradiol as also being essentially 'natural'. I do seem to have achieved some further breast growth and am not far off filling a 42B bra. Furthermore, I firmly believe that the PM is responsible for my latest hormone level tests continuing to show that my testosterone, FSH and LH levels all being not only low but too low to measure. The same effect has been reported by some others who have continued using PM alongside prescription HRT. I'm sure it helps make my still low (2mg) dose of estradiol more effective. The test showed a level of 363 pmol/L.

An update and perhaps a warning.

Despite my fasting blood sugar and A1C levels being near ideal levels, I have continued to suffer from peripheral neuropathy, recently in the form of painfully 'burning' feet, together with extremely dry and cracking skin on my lower legs and hands. On the basis of my own observations and posts by others, it seems likely to me that PM acts on the pituitary gland to suppress its production of T, FSH and LH so that if T production by one's testicles has already been completely shut down, there is a total absence of T, etc which is not a good thing and probably responsible for the 'burning' feet. I therefore stopped taking PM ten days ago and things seem to be getting better. I have been prescribed venlafaxine to help with the pain, but the dosage has to be worked up slowly and is probably not high enough yet to have much effect. As an antidepressant I'm hoping that it will compensate for the loss of the anxiolytic effect of the PM.

On a brighter note, I got my new driver's license yesterday with my name and gender marker changed, so now at least I have an official document that says I am female.

Sorry about your problems with PM, Annie, but congratulations on getting your name and gender marker changed on your DL. When I got mine changed, I was surprised at how much it affected my self-concept. It was quite validating of my true gender.

Clara