[Shirazmn]

@Randi lowering PM dose, or stopping, will rid you of the cramping but also lower the effects of PM. As I said, I think it's a sign of fatigue. DVT (blood cloths) feel completely different and don't hurt for weeks. Also, blood cloths don't hurt when you stretch your legs. I really do think that the pain is caused by your muscles becoming weaker due to the lack of T and the presence of E. I am not 100% sure of why this doesn't happen on pharma E (as far as I know). My hypothesis is that E is low enough in PM to not be able to compensate for the T it's blocking but, again, it's just my idea. @Lotus may know what's actually going on there.
That said, if you restart PM at the same level, the pain will return. I learned to deal with it and smash through it, but that pain is also one of the reasons why I stop PM if I have physically demanding times ahead.

One last thing about weight-gains: PM is quite famous for causing weight gain (unlike pharma E). One can only hope that the new weight is all going to the right places... The reason I gave myself for the gains (which could be even around the 10lbs mark) was that the body stores fat in new "feminine" places faster than it can use the old fat. So, fat redistribution does happen but it's actually a 2-stages process where new fat is first added and then the old fat is removed. After a year or so toying with PM, I could feel my butt being more pillowy, but the feeling went away quickly as soon as I stoppe dPM and lost some weight again.

[randicd1023]

Hi Randi

Cramps while on PM are common (it happens to me all the time while on PM) and the reason for them is the lower testosterone in your body. To put it bluntly, you are weaker when taking PM. It's the same effect that takes away erections and that makes you less snappy. They probably are not caused by blood cloths, which will hurt a lot more than a cramp.
What I noticed is that PM acts better when all the side effects have come into play. The cramps, lack of sex drive etc... are all signs that your body is functioning in a more feminine way, and that the effects of estrogen in your body are maximised. My bad advice is: if you can pull through, pull through. Once your body adapts to the lower T and higher E, the feminization process will likely speed up and be even more effective.

Great picture, by the way. Your breasts look amazing, particularly for just 6 months!

I'm taking PM and I've noticed the same thing. I usually only take one PM capsule a day with RR sometimes two. I also use PM cream on my breasts too. If I get a leg cramp it's usually in the morning when I stretch in bed before I get up along with no morning wood. I only got breast buds and some development when these all came into play as you mention. I do worry about getting a DVT though and in the back of my mind I do wonder if this is something to worry about.

I think DiDi is pretty smart and has good advice. I've been doing this now for over three years and still not sure where I'm at T and E wise without tests.

Highly recommend testing.  It certainly gives you that piece of mind.  I reduced my dosage over the weekend, so we'll see if it helps. I haven't had any cramping issues the last few days, but it's something to watch.  It's random and doesn't happen all the time. However, you still have to be aware and pay attention to the symptoms. 

I'll keep you all posted. 

[randicd1023]

I've never heard of leg cramps being a thing with HRT, at least not with bioidentical stuff we use today. It could be DVT symptom, especially when taking phytoestrogens or synthetic estrogen or progestins or taking estrogen orally. Lowering dosage or taking a break would be the smartest move to consider.

The doctor I’ve been working with supplied me with an informed consent to review and sign before starting HRT. One of the listed side effects were leg cramps and the possibility of clots.  Most of the consent outlined symptoms very similar to PM. I think I’m going to make the switch soon.

[Heaven's Night]

Doctors often cite age old prorocols and talk about bioidentical E2 like its synthetic. Just that you know. Bioidentical E2 taken transdermally or by injection doesn't affect cblood clotting factors almost at all, its completely insignificant. Only difference is when its taken orally, having liver metabolism messed in changes this, and obviously old fashioned synthetic stuff isn't as good and that's what does the crazy clotting risk.

So with decent HRT program likely no problems, no leg cramps, no blood clots. Doctors very often speak out of their asses on this one. At least in here they do.

[randicd1023]

Doctors often cite age old prorocols and talk about bioidentical E2 like its synthetic. Just that you know. Bioidentical E2 taken transdermally or by injection doesn't affect cblood clotting factors almost at all, its completely insignificant. Only difference is when its taken orally, having liver metabolism messed in changes this, and obviously old fashioned synthetic stuff isn't as good and that's what does the crazy clotting risk.

So with decent HRT program likely no problems, no leg cramps, no blood clots. Doctors very often speak out of their asses on this one. At least in here they do.

I think they’re just giving me all possible side effects, but likely not something I’d encounter. I’m meeting with the doctors in a few weeks to complete the informed consent and hopefully start prescription based E. I don’t plan to start with injections. Given the early results of PM I need to continue a slow transition. 

Thank you so much for your insight. I’m sure I’ll have more questions in the future. 

[ChuckM]

Hi Randi

Cramps while on PM are common (it happens to me all the time while on PM) and the reason for them is the lower testosterone in your body. To put it bluntly, you are weaker when taking PM. It's the same effect that takes away erections and that makes you less snappy. They probably are not caused by blood cloths, which will hurt a lot more than a cramp.
What I noticed is that PM acts better when all the side effects have come into play. The cramps, lack of sex drive etc... are all signs that your body is functioning in a more feminine way, and that the effects of estrogen in your body are maximised. My bad advice is: if you can pull through, pull through. Once your body adapts to the lower T and higher E, the feminization process will likely speed up and be even more effective.

Great picture, by the way. Your breasts look amazing, particularly for just 6 months!

I'm taking PM and I've noticed the same thing. I usually only take one PM capsule a day with RR sometimes two. I also use PM cream on my breasts too. If I get a leg cramp it's usually in the morning when I stretch in bed before I get up along with no morning wood. I only got breast buds and some development when these all came into play as you mention. I do worry about getting a DVT though and in the back of my mind I do wonder if this is something to worry about.

I think DiDi is pretty smart and has good advice. I've been doing this now for over three years and still not sure where I'm at T and E wise without tests.

DVT is definitely something to keep in mind while taking PM.  I developed a DVT after about 6 months on PM, and I can tell you it is NOT something that you want to deal with.  Dangerous, potentially life threatening, very painful, and very expensive if you don't have good insurance to cover the cost of the better clot dissolving drugs.  I was taking about 2000mg of PM daily when I developed the DVT.  I was getting some very good results, but immediately stopped the PM, and eventually switched over to FG.  My development with FG has been slower, but no issues with blood clots, and FG has the additional benefit of having some blood thinning properties.  Once you've developed a DVT, chances are that it will never completely resolve itself, and will be something that you'll have to maintain awareness of for for the rest of your life.  

Best regards,
ChuckM

[randicd1023]

What were some of your symptoms with DVT while using PM?  I haven't had any issues in over week, but I've also increased my water consumption. I'm an active person, lots of running and exercising. I never went above 1000mg of PM. And I've since lowered to 500mg.

[ChuckM]

Hi Randi

Cramps while on PM are common (it happens to me all the time while on PM) and the reason for them is the lower testosterone in your body. To put it bluntly, you are weaker when taking PM. It's the same effect that takes away erections and that makes you less snappy. They probably are not caused by blood cloths, which will hurt a lot more than a cramp.
What I noticed is that PM acts better when all the side effects have come into play. The cramps, lack of sex drive etc... are all signs that your body is functioning in a more feminine way, and that the effects of estrogen in your body are maximised. My bad advice is: if you can pull through, pull through. Once your body adapts to the lower T and higher E, the feminization process will likely speed up and be even more effective.

Great picture, by the way. Your breasts look amazing, particularly for just 6 months!

I'm taking PM and I've noticed the same thing. I usually only take one PM capsule a day with RR sometimes two. I also use PM cream on my breasts too. If I get a leg cramp it's usually in the morning when I stretch in bed before I get up along with no morning wood. I only got breast buds and some development when these all came into play as you mention. I do worry about getting a DVT though and in the back of my mind I do wonder if this is something to worry about.

I think DiDi is pretty smart and has good advice. I've been doing this now for over three years and still not sure where I'm at T and E wise without tests.

DVT is definitely something to keep in mind while taking PM.  I developed a DVT after about 6 months on PM, and I can tell you it is NOT something that you want to deal with.  Dangerous, potentially life threatening, very painful, and very expensive if you don't have good insurance to cover the cost of the better clot dissolving drugs.  I was taking about 2000mg of PM daily when I developed the DVT.  I was getting some very good results, but immediately stopped the PM, and eventually switched over to FG.  My development with FG has been slower, but no issues with blood clots, and FG has the additional benefit of having some blood thinning properties.  Once you've developed a DVT, chances are that it will never completely resolve itself, and will be something that you'll have to maintain awareness of for for the rest of your life.  

Best regards,
ChuckM

What were some of your symptoms with DVT while using PM?  I haven't had any issues in over week, but I've also increased my water consumption. I'm an active person, lots of running and exercising. I never went above 1000mg of PM. And I've since lowered to 500mg.

Not really that many.  I'd had an increase in leg cramps for a few months, but nothing that really concerned me.  Then one Monday at the gym, my legs got really tired while on the elliptical trainer, which at first I thought was due to a hard leg workout the day before.  The next day my leg started to ache, and by Wednesday it had really started to swell up and by that evening my left leg looked like a stuffed sausage and I was off to the emergency hospital where they immediately got me on blood thinners to lower the risk of a pulmonary embolism.  

Best regards,
ChuckM  

Best regards,

[randicd1023]

Hi Randi

Cramps while on PM are common (it happens to me all the time while on PM) and the reason for them is the lower testosterone in your body. To put it bluntly, you are weaker when taking PM. It's the same effect that takes away erections and that makes you less snappy. They probably are not caused by blood cloths, which will hurt a lot more than a cramp.
What I noticed is that PM acts better when all the side effects have come into play. The cramps, lack of sex drive etc... are all signs that your body is functioning in a more feminine way, and that the effects of estrogen in your body are maximised. My bad advice is: if you can pull through, pull through. Once your body adapts to the lower T and higher E, the feminization process will likely speed up and be even more effective.

Great picture, by the way. Your breasts look amazing, particularly for just 6 months!

I'm taking PM and I've noticed the same thing. I usually only take one PM capsule a day with RR sometimes two. I also use PM cream on my breasts too. If I get a leg cramp it's usually in the morning when I stretch in bed before I get up along with no morning wood. I only got breast buds and some development when these all came into play as you mention. I do worry about getting a DVT though and in the back of my mind I do wonder if this is something to worry about.

I think DiDi is pretty smart and has good advice. I've been doing this now for over three years and still not sure where I'm at T and E wise without tests.

DVT is definitely something to keep in mind while taking PM.  I developed a DVT after about 6 months on PM, and I can tell you it is NOT something that you want to deal with.  Dangerous, potentially life threatening, very painful, and very expensive if you don't have good insurance to cover the cost of the better clot dissolving drugs.  I was taking about 2000mg of PM daily when I developed the DVT.  I was getting some very good results, but immediately stopped the PM, and eventually switched over to FG.  My development with FG has been slower, but no issues with blood clots, and FG has the additional benefit of having some blood thinning properties.  Once you've developed a DVT, chances are that it will never completely resolve itself, and will be something that you'll have to maintain awareness of for for the rest of your life.  

Best regards,
ChuckM

What were some of your symptoms with DVT while using PM?  I haven't had any issues in over week, but I've also increased my water consumption. I'm an active person, lots of running and exercising. I never went above 1000mg of PM. And I've since lowered to 500mg.

Not really that many.  I'd had an increase in leg cramps for a few months, but nothing that really concerned me.  Then one Monday at the gym, my legs got really tired while on the elliptical trainer, which at first I thought was due to a hard leg workout the day before.  The next day my leg started to ache, and by Wednesday it had really started to swell up and by that evening my left leg looked like a stuffed sausage and I was off to the emergency hospital where they immediately got me on blood thinners to lower the risk of a pulmonary embolism.  

Best regards,
ChuckM  

Best regards,

wow, that’s scary. Thanks for sharing. I’m now going to reduce PM for a while. See if the cramps go away.  As a runner I've had a few cramps before. Maybe it’s just a bad coincidence. I had a plan to switch to HRT in the fall. Perhaps I should bump that up. 

Hope you fully recovered. 

[Heaven's Night]

For me it didn't go to the point of needing ER visit... I noticed it while I was working at the same time, construction so physical job. I also did weight lifting, drumming etc., at the same time which on itself was already too much stress for my body. The cramps came at night and they were mostly in my right leg, a bit above the knee and it became so painful it kept me up at night. There was also some feeling of swelling and hot spots on my legs. At that time I also smoked and I have naturally high hemoglobin so thick blood no matter what I do.

That continued for a short while and it scared me enough to take time off of PM, very soon cramps were gone and never came back and in few months I switched over to conventional HRT and other NBE. It was quite scary and I'm convinced I was already developing DVT but it was lucky shot to take that break well in time and then change my program completely.

Anyway, 100% seriously a thing to keep an eye on and be careful about. I wonder if its about genetics or just luck as most people don't seem to develop any symptoms while on PM if they just keep the doses mderate but then some do? Being physically active and fit definitely does not stop it from happening, could it make it worse? Thick blood carries loads of oxygen, bleeding stops quickly, but it also has higher clotting factors.