[EvaMarie]

1-4 it varies but headed towards 1....

[AnnieBL]

Some while ago I tried to construct a scale of this kind but eventually gave up as it seemed to me that I needed to take into account at least four and probably more variables, with a result that defies easy illustration. It is human nature to want to draw parallels with the experiences of others, but by doing so one risks being seen as attempting to label them.

I don't think that androgyne and bigender should be lumped together because one of them combines masculine and feminine characteristics while bigender implies switching or conflict between these groups of characteristics, with various degrees of instability, so this is a major variable in itself. Another variable that I believe is relevant is the extent to which parts of either or both of these groups of characteristics may be missing. Add in in cultural and timeline variables and things start to get out of hand

All this is not to say that a simplified scale is not useful, but it may be a dubious or variable fit for many people, as illustrated by the posts to date.

[flamesabers]

All this is not to say that a simplified scale is not useful, but it may be a dubious or variable fit for many people, as illustrated by the posts to date.

I know and I agree with you. Ultimately my intentions were just to create a scale that makes it somewhat easier to categorize one's level of GD. No scale will be perfect, but I think it can be beneficial to use one just to get ballpark figures.

[Lenneth]

Hello all.

Here's a scale I devised to identify GD levels. It's my own design and while it may be very limited, I hope it's useful as a guide for reference purposes. The scale goes from being a 1 (transwoman) to being a 10 (cisgender male).

GD Scale

Transwoman (MtF Transsexual)

1 Has very severe GD
Is planning on transitioning or is already in the process
Has disclosed or will disclose herself to family/friends/co-workers

2 Has severe GD
Has strong and persistent desire to transition
Has significant difficulty trying to live and appear as a male

3 Has moderate GD
Has significant unhappiness due to discord between his sex and gender
Uses hormones to take the edge off of GD

4 Has mild-moderate GD
Likely to use hormones for relief of GD
May consider transitioning but is unsure and worried about coming out of the closest

5 Androgynous/third gender/no gender
May use hormones to reflect his internal gender identity
Acknowledges and respects both feminine and masculine traits

6 Has mild GD
Has a strong feminine side, but is otherwise able to function as a male
May use hormones or seek therapy to determine the extent of his feminine side

7 Envies females but still retains a male identity
May crossdress in public and/or try to pass as a female
Considers using hormones but wants to keep his virility

8 May crossdress in private with or without significant other's knowledge
Wonders what it would be like to be a woman but has no real interest in hormones or surgery
Relatively content being a male for a majority of the time

9 Has occasional fantasies or thoughts about being a woman
Does nothing to indulge on these fantasies
Satisfied with living and appearing as a male

10 Happy being a male
Being a woman is bizarre, unimaginable or disturbing
Has zero interest in feminine activities or interests

Cisgender Male

Please share any feedback or thoughts you may have on this.

No PM: First & 2nd Line of 2 + 2nd Line of 3 + 2nd Line of 4

On PM: 4 + a touch of 5

[Marina Kits]

Here's another way you could go Flame. Make every line a yes no question. Yes = 1 point, no = none. Add up the points for a numeric value and assign each range a descriptive phrase

0-2 Cis male
3-5 Mild trans
6-10 ???
11-14

...you get the idea

Currently, using your draft scale, I'd give myself a 2. And BTW it works a lot better than the "Which Frozen character are you", quiz already!

[flamesabers]

Here's another way you could go Flame. Make every line a yes no question. Yes = 1 point, no = none. Add up the points for a numeric value and assign each range a descriptive phrase

0-2 Cis male
3-5 Mild trans
6-10 ???
11-14

...you get the idea

Currently, using your draft scale, I'd give myself a 2. And BTW it works a lot better than the "Which Frozen character are you", quiz already!

This sounds like a good idea. A concern I have though is some members may not like yes/no questions. I'm going to need time to think everything over and consider all the feedback I've received thus far.

[Lenneth]

Here's another way you could go Flame. Make every line a yes no question. Yes = 1 point, no = none. Add up the points for a numeric value and assign each range a descriptive phrase

0-2 Cis male
3-5 Mild trans
6-10 ???
11-14

...you get the idea

Currently, using your draft scale, I'd give myself a 2. And BTW it works a lot better than the "Which Frozen character are you", quiz already!

This sounds like a good idea. A concern I have though is some members may not like yes/no questions. I'm going to need time to think everything over and consider all the feedback I've received thus far.

only one way to find out.

[flamesabers]

Here's another way you could go Flame. Make every line a yes no question. Yes = 1 point, no = none. Add up the points for a numeric value and assign each range a descriptive phrase

0-2 Cis male
3-5 Mild trans
6-10 ???
11-14

...you get the idea

Currently, using your draft scale, I'd give myself a 2. And BTW it works a lot better than the "Which Frozen character are you", quiz already!

This sounds like a good idea. A concern I have though is some members may not like yes/no questions. I'm going to need time to think everything over and consider all the feedback I've received thus far.

only one way to find out.

Maybe when I get back on pm I'll write up a questionnaire.

[AnnieBL]

Here's another way you could go Flame. Make every line a yes no question. Yes = 1 point, no = none. Add up the points for a numeric value and assign each range a descriptive phrase

0-2 Cis male
3-5 Mild trans
6-10 ???
11-14

...you get the idea

Currently, using your draft scale, I'd give myself a 2. And BTW it works a lot better than the "Which Frozen character are you", quiz already!

This sounds like a good idea. A concern I have though is some members may not like yes/no questions. I'm going to need time to think everything over and consider all the feedback I've received thus far.

Sounds like a really good idea. To avoid the yes/no, each question could carry a 0 - 5 score ?

[MissC]

Add in in cultural and timeline variables and things start to get out of hand

Indeed. The perception depends on the cultural framework in which one resides.

In the culture of my raising -- Western Judeo-Christianity -- there isn't even a word, let alone a category, for a two-spirit. There's Adam & Eve... there's a talking snake and seas parting and Balaam's ass and a reincarnated prophet... but no gender nonconformity, no sirree. It would be bad enough just like that, but the rabbis of old apparently saw fit to place some specific prohibitions on crossdressing just to nail that coffin shut, I reckon.

The gender dysphoria in this cultural framework, in my opinion, isn't so much that as it is cognitive dissonance. That is to say, the person finds himself at odds with that which he is presumed to believe. "God made me, but doesn't want me to be this way." Believing two opposite things at once is a sure path to mental anguish or illness -- and indeed disease can arise from this stress.

Then, somewhere in the middle, we could mention the "hijra" of India. While the word may not be perfectly synonymous with "third gender", we could think of it as such. They are a caste that is looked down upon by most, to be sure, but they at least do have a name and a place in the society -- and the modicum of respect one may enjoy without the Judeo-Christian imputation of "sin". Perhaps most importantly, the hijra have not been infected by Western psychiatry. Gender identity disorder? Nah, they just is what they is, man.

And at the other end, we find among yet other cultural frameworks, such as some American Indian tribes, that the two-spirit is a well-respected member of the group. He or she or both or... whatever... will also not infrequently be a holy person, a shaman, a medicine man/woman, a mediator, a spirit-caller. Man-woman and woman-man are special people with special skills. There's simply no call for psychiatry here -- who's going to send the medicine man to a shrink? Gender dysphoria? I can hear the laughter of the Lakota from here.

To come to a point -- each of these three examples could be the same person -- the same boy who is half girl, or whatever the case may be. In one framework, he is bad; a sinner, mentally ill, in need of treatment. In the second, he is accepted as different -- not bad -- and given a place. In the third, he grows up to heal the sick, guide the tribe, and become a respected elder.

I'm not going to come right out and say that psychiatry and its DSM are bullshit... though I could, it is my belief that cultural framework is the more important factor. It is clear to me that the guilt and shame I experienced as a youngster were a result of the of the conflict between me and the cultural framework I grew up in, not because of something intrinsically wrong with my persona. When you teach kids that being unlike the others is wrong, is it any surprise that we get mental problems? What if you had grown up with a different framework, one that celebrates life in all its variety?

We are slowly changing that framework. When the last psychiatrist is hanged, strung up with the guts of the last preacher, that's when, in the immortal words of Garth Brooks, "We Shall Be Free".

And that, Flamesabers... is when your scale will be meaningless.