[Dynseli]

'Livestock grazing on red clover and other subterranean clovers can exhibit what is known as “clover disease” resulting in behavioral and physiological reproductive disruption in both males and females, leading to infertility [7,8,35]. ' - from above source

'Red clover was found to cause vaginal abnormalities and altered mating behavior in ewes [8], leading to permanent flock infertility [7], when ewes were fed red clover during periods in the first 4–5 years of their lives.' - fro, above source

I haven't seen human tests, but mammals and birds were included. Do you really want to recommend red clover after reading that? I'm not going to argue whether if there were human tests, but look up "clover disease" for everyone's own sake. There was another source that said it over time it has led to permanent infertility from caused by shrinking either the ovaries and testies..

[Dynseli]

The recognition of ‘clover disease’ in Australian sheep in the 1940s led to the investigation of oestrogenic activity of isoflavones. The sheep whose diet was predominately subterranean clover (Trifolium subterraneum L., Fabaceae) suffered from a reproductive disorder that reduced the lambing rates and involved abnormal lactation, changes in the sex organs, and permanent infertility [30, 31]. Indeed, the phytoestrogens are present in green clover and are not present at senescence.

My apologies to breast quest for the hijacked thread. Lovely, why don't you create your own thread about Red Clover, this way we can come to understand your belief about the cross-link to which you refer to.

Trifolium pratense is red clover

I was thinking of starting a new thread about red clover, right before I read that. I didn't mean to hijack this thread, I was trying to show the source.

[Differoh]

Back when I first started PM before I quit (same reasons as you are worried, but I was pretty impulsive with my doses) I used only for a month at 3000mg out the gate. My testes hurt bad, my sperm was clearer, and my penis felt like rubber and no matter what was lifeless. Obviously your time is much longer than that. And I will tell you what helped me ridiculously well in regaining function and quality of sperm.
ZINC and STINGING NETTLE. At your time you may want to even add Horny Goat Weed in the mix.

Zinc plays a very vital role in hormone stability and it is a mineral in which our body doesn't make so unless you are eating zinc rich meals or a supplement you're getting nada. Zinc brought my sperm quality and even intensity in sex and ejaculation to a high.

Stinging Nettle is an herb that helps put to work the Free T in your system and is a natural testosterone booster, natural not synthetic no side affects etc. I work out quite a bit and I use this and it helps out great, though I have stopped cause it caused the hair on my legs and stuff to grow back fast and shaving your legs is already a pain enough, to heck with it growing faster than it does lol.

Horny Goat Weed is phenomenal in aiding in blood flow and dialating the arteries specifically in the penis and testes. Any who may experience dysfunction and want it to be normal again may think of using this. I used it and within 2 days I was back up and going. Which was great at the time when I had a gf who was a nympho. And one reason the penis atrophies and dysfunctions especially with prolonged estrogen dominance or intake could be caused by arterosclerosis(sp) basically sclerosis of your artery down there. HGW helps dialate the arteries and allow proper blood flow to occur, and most is with Maca now so thats even better for what we all know maca can do.

Just my .02

[GoneGirl]

I've been taking PM for about two and a half years. My breasts are growing nicely. I enjoy the pain and swelling. I buy the bulk powder and i make my own pills. I fill 000 jell caps. I'm taking two in the morning and two at night befor bed. That's about eight of the regular size pills.

We'll on to my problem.

I noticed that I have had no sex drive at all. I don't get turned on at all. Male or female porn does nothing. I've had no erections either. So I decided to check my testicals. They have really shrunk. They're about the size of almonds. I'm a little worried.

I'm hoping to get some advice.

Or have I gone to far for to long.

Okay, let's get back to the OP. BQ, what are your goals going forward? Do you want to continue NBE? Do you want to restore your testicles (note spelling, please) and male function to pre-NBE condition? What is your age? Are you in a relationship? Do you want to father children? To help we need more information.

Clara

[roxyrolon]

Wish u the best with your issue. I am surprised after that long of pm it took that long for your shrinking problrm to arrise. For me i hope it happens much faster for me. I am no longer doing this for nbe so if my balls were smaller itd be great cause I hate having big balls. I'm little above average when it comes to my penis so it's a royal pain to tuck and hurts like hell after a bit.

[Katniss]

I've been taking PM for about two and a half years. My breasts are growing nicely. I enjoy the pain and swelling. I buy the bulk powder and i make my own pills. I fill 000 jell caps. I'm taking two in the morning and two at night befor bed. That's about eight of the regular size pills.

We'll on to my problem.

I noticed that I have had no sex drive at all. I don't get turned on at all. Male or female porn does nothing. I've had no erections either. So I decided to check my testicals. They have really shrunk. They're about the size of almonds. I'm a little worried.

I'm hoping to get some advice.

Or have I gone to far for to long.

Okay, let's get back to the OP. BQ, what are your goals going forward? Do you want to continue NBE? Do you want to restore your testicles (note spelling, please) and male function to pre-NBE condition? What is your age? Are you in a relationship? Do you want to father children? To help we need more information.

Clara

First thank you all for your input.

Goals going forward. Keep growing.
Yes I'm going to continue.
No I don't want to restore my testicles. Sorry for my spelling. You can spank me later.
Male function. Yes I want it back.
Age. 42
No relationship.
No. I don't want anymore children.

[GoneGirl]

Okay, thanks for the details. Puts things in proper context.

Doing HRT for 2.5 years will certainly destroy your male sexual function unless you take preventative steps. You say you are unable to achieve an erection anymore, even with physical and visual stimulation. That's not good, obviously, if you want to have sex as a man.

My advice is to see a doctor and have your serum total testerostone and free testosterone tested. Your doctor will prescribe a drug to boost your T back to normal levels. You'll also want to discontinue NBE for a time to allow your body to restore male sexual function. The whole process could take months. When your testes have recovered to the point of again producing testosterone, you should be able to stop the T medicine.

Eventually, you can go back on PM for NBE. To maintain male function, however, you have to take regular breaks to temporarily raise your T levels. It's during these breaks that you should be able to reach orgasm, although the amount of semen may be greatly reduced.

Alternatively, you could switch from NBE to a suction method (e.g., Noogleberry system) for growing breasts which will not affect your sex hormones at all. A few on this site have used suction with good success, but it takes dedication.

I hope this gives you some ideas for how to deal with your problem. There are many threads and posts on this forum warning guys about the ramifications of herbal NBE on their sexual function. I'm surprised that over the years, these warnings didn't register with you.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Clara

[Lotus]

Bust quest,

You indicated this:

Goals going forward. Keep growing.
Yes I'm going to continue.
No I don't want to restore my testicles. Sorry for my spelling. You can spank me later.
Male function. Yes I want it back.
Age. 42
No relationship.
No. I don't want anymore children.

I'm confused?, you want male function but don't want to restore your testicles. I'm not here to judge or criticize you, just trying to understand. I've seen members here start on NBE and have moved on to synthetics (not judging them either). I think this might be the eventual path you'd take just because NBE can get you to a certain point, and at that point (the crossroads) which we've discussed in detail here (JulieTG comes to mind) and boom, your over the fence, (then it's Not NBE anymore).

Is this where you see yourself heading indicating your goals?. I didn't see you list any Anti-Androgens, perhaps you might have noticed less aggression, or the need to compete (T drives those behaviors).

You also indicate you enjoy the pain and swelling, who knows, you may also have a high threshold for pain, or maybe a sadist.


You could try the testicle massage, it's free!!

http://www.cidpusa.org/testiclemasage.htm

[surferjoe2007]

I had something but then I saw the above so nevermind. I don't think you can get male sexual function without testicles. That's where testosterone comes from. Likewise dopamine may help but it directly reduces prolactin.

[Dynseli]

I agree with the suggestions of zinc, stinging nettle, goatweed, and the erased post about tongkat ali being useful to restore function, IF that is what you wanted. Add pumpkin seed to that list.