[Katie]

I remember reading way back before I started this journey something about the Majority of blood clots will happen within the first year of taking E if they`re going to happen, and that after that initial year if you`ve had nothing then you`re unlikely to. I don`t remember Where I read this, but I do remember it was a medical article. I`v been on HRT now for a good 22 months now so I`m reasonably confdent this extra patch for 1 week should be ok, it`s the same as being on 10mg E instead of 8, for short periods of time this should be reasonably safe.
then again, I have taken a 75mg Aspirin everyday since I started too, maybe that`s helping?

[The First Aria]

I remember reading way back before I started this journey something about the Majority of blood clots will happen within the first year of taking E if they`re going to happen, and that after that initial year if you`ve had nothing then you`re unlikely to. I don`t remember Where I read this, but I do remember it was a medical article. I`v been on HRT now for a good 22 months now so I`m reasonably confdent this extra patch for 1 week should be ok, it`s the same as being on 10mg E instead of 8, for short periods of time this should be reasonably safe.
then again, I have taken a 75mg Aspirin everyday since I started too, maybe that`s helping?

That's a good idea, taking aspirin.  With my GD, he said he normally recommends a full aspiring.  I think a regular aspirin in 325 mgs???  I am also taking it due to my heart condition.  I wish you luck, but I really don't think it will speed things up.  Especially if you are at women's level with estrogen

[spanky (aka Lola)]

I have been using a Climara 7.6mg patch plus 2 or 3 Progynova pills (sublingually) for about 5 weeks.  (You needn't tell me that I shouldn't act as a human guinea pig.  I know, I know.  I am just a bad little lab rat.)  This regimen seems to be effective, although I cannot compare it to injections, having never tried that method.  I feel great and am all a-tingle.

I am not a chemist, pharmacist, or medical professional of any kind, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.  From my limited research, Climara and Progynova appear to deliver the same type of estradiol.  Progynova is estradiol valerate, which is described chemically as "estra-1,3,5(10)-triene-3,17β-diol 17β-pentanoate," which I believe is the same as Climara as indicated on the FDA website: (https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfd...026lbl.pdf).

If that is correct, then I would think that there is no conflict or problem in using the two simultaneously.

[Lotus]

Using it with Etabs, like you admit you are, is the ticket.

tabs.

I was promptly attacked by someone who finally admitted they were taking tabs.

What attack and where?, you also keep going on about admitting to taking E2 tablets in this thread, when in fact it was mentioned several times or more in the past (before you ever joined BN actually)....with lab results (going back to 9/2015, but here’s a 2016 post if you bothered to read the history) and under physician care. 
http://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=17436&pid=179832&highlight=Test#pid179832


Btw...

DHT is an interesting subject for me because it seems to be particularly stubborn.

"When DHT formation is inhibited, the aromatization pathway of T to estradiol will prevail and induce a pronounced down-regulation of AR mRNA levels."

ESTROGENS INCREASE THE RISK OF ENDOMETRIAL CANCER
https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/getFile.cfm?setid=144db6ad-c4cf-45ea-b27c-a76a319dba38&type=pdf&name=144db6ad-c4cf-45ea-b27c-a76a319dba38

The systemic availability of estradiol after transdermal administration is about 20 times higher than that after oral administration. This difference is due to the absence of first pass metabolism when estradiol is given by the transdermal route.

(See page 4 (fig. 2) which shows the highest concentrations of the patch delivery is on the buttocks).

The estradiol serum concentration profiles are shown in Figure 2. Cmax and Cavg values were, respectively, 25% and 17% higher with the buttock application than with the abdomen application.

This study found that more ER (estrogen receptors) subtypes are located in the butt as opposed to subcutaneous abdominal adipose tissue. (More research is needed to locate the missing ER subtypes for people wanting a bigger booty).

receptor subtypes alpha and beta in human adipose tissue: influences of adipose cell differentiation and fat depot localization.

Pedersen SB1, Bruun JM, Hube F, Kristensen K, Hauner H, Richelsen B.

Abstract

A novel ER-subtype, the ER-beta has recently been characterized in various tissues, furthermore five isoforms of the ER-beta are known (ER-beta1--ER-beta5). Using immunoblotting and real- time RT-PCR, ER-alpha and beta were studied in human adipose tissue. The expression of ER-alpha mRNA was equal in subcutaneous gluteal adipose tissue, subcutaneous abdominal and intra-abdominal adipose tissue, similar findings were obtained at the protein level. In contrast the amount of ER-beta1 (protein and mRNA) was significantly lower in intra-abdominal adipose tissue as compared with the subcutaneous adipose tissue (five-fold lower in women, P<0.005 and three-fold lower in men, P<0.005) whereas the expression of ER-beta4 and -beta5 mRNA isoforms were significantly higher in gluteal adipose tissue compared to subcutaneous abdominal adipose tissue. No significant gender differences in ER expression was detected in any of the fat depots investigated. During adipocyte differentiation the expression of ER-alpha, -beta4 and -beta5 mRNA declined, whereas, the expression of ER-beta1 mRNA was constant. In conclusion, the existence of ER-beta isoforms in human adipose tissue was demonstrated and the amount of these receptors was dependent upon fat depot localization, with much reduced expression of ER-beta1 in intra-abdominal adipose tissue compared to subcutaneous adipose tissue. These findings may indicate that estrogens could have differentiation and depot specific effects in human adipose tissue.

Don’t kid yourself, a program based solely on stimulating estrogen will not grow substantial boobs and or speed up feminization ....anybody that studies the endocrine knows this, rather a focused combination therapy of sex hormones/P450 enzymes/Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases (HSDs) pathways/glucocorticoids/diet/light exercise (and a few other things) should be observed, all of which have been discussed here, at BN. Furthermore....estrogen is not risk free from depression, weight gain, insomnia, estrogen receptor desensitization, higher triglycerides, immune problems...etc, etc.

Fat tissue contains 5 to 10 more estrogen than in the plasma levels, and then it stores it there until it’s burned for energy, caution though to sedentary persons (health issues mentioned above).


Aromatization of Androgens by Human Abdominal and Breast Fat Tissue1
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-ab...Mhqtw.dpuf

I understand the need to self medicate (I did myself) with DIY HRT, it’s very risky, and we do what we must. However, I would urge anyone who considers HRT (especially DIY hormones) to speak with a professional. Sure, circumstances may not allow to seek advise at first (thus the need to experiment).

It takes time moving past the red tape the medical community puts on the trans community (in general) seeking gender health care.....and some cases people don’t make it past the word go sad to say...speaking from experienced I was discriminated from a (neanderthal transphobic gate keeper) endocrinologist, it took 2 years to find the health care I now have. It was a frustrating experience to say the least, a couples of times I felt like throwing in the towel...luckily though I have a good friend that helped me through it.

So....get a blood spot check every few months (even if it’s just for estrogen), at least knowing what current meds/supplements are doing in your body you can adjust meds, flying by the seat of the pants with pie in sky ridiculous amounts of E2 doesn’t speed up the process. For me?, my E levels are high on any dose of E2 I take, at one point my E2 was 2200 pg/mL (pregnancy levels) on just 4 mg of E2 tablets....so I now know (after 3 yrs. on hormones and previous 2 yrs. of NBE) what makes my body metabolize E2 to that level, but there's no need on my part for increased health risks.

Prolactin stores breast fat by increasing the production of lipoprotein lipase (LPL, a fat storage enzyme). So we also know prolactin increases the number of ER's, which kind however (ER alpha or beta) is less known.


From what I've seen in scientific literature on the different types of breast receptors it's a mix, being of 20% androgen receptors, 20% estrogen receptors, 20% glucocorticoid receptors, 20% prolactin, the rest I'm thinking its insulin (IGF-1, or IL-1) receptors. Here's the thing, too much estrogen stimulation doesn't address other receptors. It would appear that androgen receptors will inhibit breast growth by way of DHT, which is present in breast tissue, especially in skin fibroblasts. Progesterone cream is a 5 alpha reduction inhibitor, but..it also stores fat too, and helps build ductal side branching. Breast massage agents should address the receptor types. Therapy should include a 5 AR inhibitor 1st, then go with an E2 source followed by a GH source. Prolactin should could by way of nipple stimulation, have fun.

This study explains about starving fat cells for (massive) synthesis. It all ties together.

Free fatty acids: continuously released from adipose tissue, with a peak in secretion during fastting and a decrease during postprandial periods. During obesity, when resistance of adipose tissue to insulin develops (partly because of hypoxia generated following adipocyte hypertrophia/hyperplasia), enhanced lipolysis leads to a massive increase in plasma free fatty acids. Free fatty acids will then perturb liver and muscle insulin action.

Lipophilic Micronutrients and Adipose Tissue Biology

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...-01622.pdf

Apologies Jannet.

[jannet.duff]

Using it with Etabs, like you admit you are, is the ticket.

tabs.

I was promptly attacked by someone who finally admitted they were taking tabs.

What attack and where?, you also keep going on about admitting to taking E2 tablets in this thread, when in fact it was mentioned several times or more in the past (before you ever joined BN actually)....with lab results (going back to 9/2015, but here’s a 2016 post if you bothered to read the history) and under physician care. 
http://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=17436&pid=179832&highlight=Test#pid179832


Btw...










Apologies Jannet.

Non needed Lotus, your input is always appreciated.

[jannet.duff]

I thought I would drop a quick post for some of you ladies that are sitting on the sidelines about injecting twice a week, instead of your doctor's recommendation that you inject once every 7 or even 14 days.

My blood work for my Dr is typically drawn on a 7 day injection cycle, as per his instructions.
I do however inject normally every 3.5 days.
10mg at 7 days, or 5mg at 3.5 days.

My 7 day cycle ( 10mg ) has shown my Estrogen levels to be @ 300pmol/L ( The Dr is happy with this level )

Yesterday I had my blood drawn for a my family Dr, and asked him to include Estrogen and Testosterone, so he has a record of my transition too.

My 3.5 day cycle ( 5mg ) showed my Estrogen levels up to 1585pmol/L

My Testostetone for both is 0.4 nmol/L

To be honest, I was shocked to see the level that high, I was expecting maybe 500/600 pmol, but not almost 1600pmol.

Obviously, I do not need or take any Spiro or Finesteride.

I should add, I also eat a grapefruit every day.

[Pansy-Mae]

I should add, I also eat a grapefruit every day.

I think thats the bravest thing I ever heard