[CM213]

3rd week back on doses are going to be kept the same for now.

Swansons bo 1500. 2 am, 2 lunch, 2 pm
Swansons Reshi 1500. 1 am, 1 lunch, 1 pm
Swansons MSM 2000 1 am, 1 pm
Calcium magnesium zink d3 supplement 1 tab 3x day
Boilabs bi est cream 1 full pump 1 time a day. 

Depending on how the visit with the endocrinologist goes on Friday I may or may not change the NBE regimen.

[CM213]

Only update is that I'm feeling the normal dull aches down stairs, my hair seems to be darker and or slightly not as thin, not sure if it's NBE or the Rogain I've been using for half a year now, and the skin on my face I feel is slightly softer, but I have incorporated a daily facial routine of gentle cleanse and lotion.  

Not sure how much damage or retrogression took place from my week off nbe, but this is all I have noticed so far being back on steady for two weeks, and now starting my third week.

[Heaven's Night]

Btw, hair, skin and eye pigment changes are quite well known change that some get from HRT. I presume NBE could do the same to some extent. I know my eyebrows have gotten darker, hair colour is unchanged, but my eyes completely changed from grey/blue to almost completely green. There used to be just a hint of green behind the grey and now there's like zero grey and tons of green with a little hint of blue.
Then I noticed that I started to develop visible freckles and do not tan smoothly like I used to.

You can expect such things especially once you get on convnetional HRT, it does plenty of small changes and it definitely has an effect on pigments.

One week off likely didn't change much anything, all this stuff is about months and years so no worries.

[CM213]

@Lara,

Yes those are the little things I feel I am most excited about, besides the obvious changes from hrt or nbe. I guess I should take pictures on my eyes so I can see if they change. Mine are blue, grey/blue. Sometimes really brilliant blue. But usually they're like a dull blue. 

Do you think I should continue to use the bio labs bi-est 5.0 cream, or do you think that can be counter acting the b.o. 

I ask because I ran out, and for a week or so I haven't used it, but for that week I feel I noticed the most with what one would assume is the onset of the Bo working. 

Not to share too much Info, but I feel after a particularly hot and sweaty day last week, I feel like my nether regions didn't smell like they would normally smell. Lol of that make sense. I never noticed that while on the bio labs cream.

[Heaven's Night]

Zero problem with estrogen with BO, you can keep both going and it shouldn't be a problem.

The most usual eye colour change is that the pigment can become brighter or stronger, for example if your eyes are blue, HRT can make them much more vibrant blue. Mine has been somewhat strange as they're completely different now, but it seems that the greens have strengthened a lot while grey faded to the background and there's less blues than before. Its so strange as I didn't first know it could happen and then things just started changing and whole lot of pigments are very different now. Only complaint I have is that I do not tan smoothly like I used to, but my face now gets fuckton of tiny freckles which look like I'm dirty rather than tanned. Arms do the same thing.

Also hair colour can become deeper and stronger, I dunno if mine changed much, other than getting some new greys in last cuople of years.

Oh by the way, body odour change is absolutely to be expected. Also you might notice you will start to sweat very differently and probably much less than before. That leads to less need of taking showers all the time which might help with skin and hair quality. I have benefitted a lot from not needing as much shower or sauna these days. I love it as with crazy sensitive skin that's a must to survive without being broken somehow all the time.

These things really sound like BO is starting to work on you, keep at it. I hope you get HRT sorted out nicely. That's a whole another world, so much to look forward to.

[CM213]

@Lara,

Thanks..I am excited about the endo appointment, but I have realistic expectations. I don't see myself leaving with any prescriptions on Friday. Maybe have labs work done and then go from there as to what they think is the best plan given my baseline is what I imagine will happen. But who knows. 

I am excited to start as soon as possible and as well for the Bo to really start working, that being said I am not looking forward to the conversations about hormones with my wife.  Not that I plan to not tell her or anything like that. I don't plan to start hormones without telling her that I want to start and try hormones first, vs taking them and then at some point 3-6 months from now have an argument when it becomes obvious. 

I am definitely looking forward to starting my transition, while at the same time not looking forward to it as well. Lol

[wee2er]

All usual changes, I'm seeing the same and enjoying them.
Good luck with the endo on Friday.

[CM213]

Thanks Wee2er, I hope it goes well.

When taking NBE or even hrt, the on set of estrogen shutting down the male function etc is slow but sure. Right now I'm feeling the constant dull aches down south, my question is does that ever stop? And when/if it does, how much longer before I start to see obvious changes from nbe/HRT. Obviously it will vary from individual to individual. I was just wonder how many stages there are for the effect of estrogen on the testicles in relation to starting to see physical signs that ones testicles have shut down completely and the body is now responding to estrogen. 

Not sure if that makes sense. I've looked and used the search function all over this forum to see if there was anything posted about the stages that men who take estrogen go through but could not find much. 

This is what I found on Google:

" When exposed to high levels of estrogen, the testicles go through a series of changes, primarily affecting sperm production by impacting the Sertoli cells within the seminiferous tubules, leading to decreased sperm count and potential infertility; this process can include initial disruption of the blood-testis barrier, decreased testosterone production from Leydig cells, shrinkage in testicular size, and ultimately, if prolonged, atrophy of the seminiferous tubules, impacting the overall structure and function of the testis. 
 
Key stages of estrogen effects on the testicles: 
 
Early Stage: 
 
Estrogen receptor binding: Estrogen binds to estrogen receptors (ERs) present on Sertoli cells and Leydig cells within the testis, initiating a cascade of cellular changes. 
 
Disruption of blood-testis barrier: Estrogen can disrupt the tight junctions between Sertoli cells, compromising the blood-testis barrier which is crucial for proper sperm development. 
 
Reduced testosterone production: By affecting Leydig cell function, estrogen can lead to a decrease in testosterone production. 
 
Intermediate Stage: 
 
Impaired spermatogenesis: The disruption of the blood-testis barrier and altered Sertoli cell function significantly impacts spermatogenesis, causing a decrease in sperm production and abnormalities in sperm morphology. 
 
Decreased seminiferous tubule diameter: The seminiferous tubules, where sperm production occurs, may become smaller in diameter due to reduced germ cell development. 
 
Leydig cell atrophy: Prolonged exposure to estrogen can lead to a decrease in the size and function of Leydig cells, further impacting testosterone production. 
 
Advanced Stage: 
 
Testicular atrophy: With continued high estrogen levels, the testicles may significantly shrink in size due to decreased cell proliferation and degeneration of the seminiferous tubules. 
 
Infertility: Severe disruption of spermatogenesis can lead to significant infertility issues. 
 
Alterations in testicular morphology: Microscopic examination may reveal significant changes in the testicular tissue, including abnormal cellular arrangement and decreased cellular density. 
 
Important considerations: 
 
Individual variability:
The effects of estrogen on the testicles can vary depending on the individual, duration of exposure, and overall hormonal balance. 
 
Estrogen levels in males:
While men naturally produce small amounts of estrogen, abnormally high levels can arise due to medical conditions or medications. 
 
Reversible effects:
In some cases, if the elevated estrogen levels are addressed, testicular function may partially recover."


But it doesn't really describe what the individuals are feeling or going through with each stage. With all that said I was trying to see where I fall in these stages, as I'm sure others often wonder about themselves as well.

[CM213]

I'll prob ask the endocrinologist about all this on Friday. 

Like I have mentioned above. There is a constant dull ache, the testicles seem to have shrunk, but then other times they seem to be just as big as they were before nbe. As well as a faint darker line from scrotum up the entire length of my member, but then other times it's not there. 

I almost feel that my body's ability to produce testosterone is stronger than the b.o, Reshi, and estrogen creams effects on my reproductive system. And if I remember correctly even while on steroids my testicles didn't shrink much, which was surprising to me, for how much I have used and for the length of time I had used it. Granted I know with body temp and external body temp will affect where they are in terms of how high or low they hang, but I feel that when they hang lower they also seem bigger while if they're higher and tighter/closer to the body they seem smaller. 
Just an observation, but in terms of nbe/HRT actually working, the only thing I can attest to is the dull ache for sure. Everything else like skin, hair, face changes I feel are all subjective at this point In time.

[CM213]

I know most don't report seeing much until the 3-6 month mark depending on dose and nbe used. Minus the week off, I will have been on nbe for 7.5 weeks. So almost 2 months. I guess I have one more month before I should start to be in the window of initial changes or growth.