[AnnieBL]

Sorry, I should have got this in about 30 posts ago, but I've been preoccupied!

Penetration is certainly an important aspect of feeling female, but it is essentially something to which you need to be subjected by another. While I have certainly in my time tried various forms of self penetration, ultimately like any other form of self gratification, none of them have really cut it for me, and with the limited socket equipment we have as genetic males , I am left doubting to what extent the effects resemble the real thing. At least when I grow breasts, I can believe that they and the associated sensations are truly something female rather than male.

Clara, by ‘talk about sex’, did you mean just talking about copulation or solitary substitutes for it, or the whole spectrum of physical and experiential differences between male and female? If the latter, then the sex act itself is only the tip of the iceberg. In the present state of technology, fully functional transition between the sexes is not yet a practical proposition for us. How does an M to F experience, in any real sense, pregnancy, birth or even periods (assuming of course that she wants to)? In a way, older guys have an easier time, since these further elements are also no longer available to a genetic female of the same age. Could that be another factor in delayed flowering of desire for feminisation in that the more limited feminisation objectives remaining are more readily and in greater part attainable.

Certainly for me, one reason for not seeking transition (besides existing relationships), is this incompleteness, and also the obstacles that my height, build and voice present to my becoming a passable woman. I’m interested in the art of the possible, and the rest, for me, has to be just fantasy. I’m in no way trying to belittle those who do need to take transition as far as possible, and for that reason I have been putting most of this in the first person since it represents only my own personal perspective. It is clear that many of you can and do become what to me are beautiful and attractive women (albeit sterile - not necessarily a disadvantage), and I am both happy for you and more than somewhat envious.

[Missed Miss]

How does an M to F experience, in any real sense, pregnancy, birth or even periods (assuming of course that she wants to)?

Generally speaking, M2F TS's can't have periods or get pregnant. BUT, I read a few years ago where one had an operation whereby she was given a donated working uterus and she WAS able to have periods AND get pregnant!! So, steps are being taken!! :-D Can't wait `til they give us the technology to step into a box as a guy, push a button and step out as a fully functional girl!!!!

[GoneGirl]

Penetration is certainly an important aspect of feeling female, but it is essentially something to which you need to be subjected by another. While I have certainly in my time tried various forms of self penetration, ultimately like any other form of self gratification, none of them have really cut it for me, and with the limited socket equipment we have as genetic males , I am left doubting to what extent the effects resemble the real thing. At least when I grow breasts, I can believe that they and the associated sensations are truly something female rather than male.

I agree with you completely, Annabel. Self penetration was a part of my autogynephilic fantasy days. It made the fantasies that much more real, if you know what I mean. PM has changed that 180 degrees. I'm kind of surprised at how the focus of my sexuality has shifted from the lower half of my anatomy to the upper half.

Clara, by ‘talk about sex’, did you mean just talking about copulation or solitary substitutes for it, or the whole spectrum of physical and experiential differences between male and female?

As I spent a good deal of time reading posts here before posting anything myself, I was surprised that there was very little discussion about the effects of NBE on one's sexual life, other than it lowering one's libido and adding nipples to one's erogenous zones. I wanted to understand more about how these herbs affect one's sex life for the better or worse, how one's attitudes about sex change, and how these changes are being integrated into one's relationship with a wife/lover. I didn't think about the reproductive aspects of sex (duh!), but that's another area of interest for many, certainly.

Certainly for me, one reason for not seeking transition (besides existing relationships), is this incompleteness, and also the obstacles that my height, build and voice present to my becoming a passable woman. I’m interested in the art of the possible, and the rest, for me, has to be just fantasy. I’m in no way trying to belittle those who do need to take transition as far as possible, and for that reason I have been putting most of this in the first person since it represents only my own personal perspective. It is clear that many of you can and do become what to me are beautiful and attractive women (albeit sterile - not necessarily a disadvantage), and I am both happy for you and more than somewhat envious.

Oh, I totally agree with you here. I'm 67 years old and have missed the boat on making a go of realizing the full potential of my female identity. But, even at my age, my inner woman is crying out for expression -- and I'm giving her every means possible to blossom. It is limited in the ways you mentioned, although in some ways I have greater freedom to transition than many of the younger members of the forum. I don't have an employer to fret about. My children are grown. My wife is accepting of my womanliness. But even with those advantages, I can't ever become a Sarah Schilling. If I could become what Sarah will look like in her 60s, that would be fine, but it's not possible. Hey, that's okay. I get so much satisfaction being free to be who I am in the limited ways that are still open to me. I'm thankful for that.

Clara

[Samantha Rogers]

Gee, Clara, I could have written that last bit myself! It is tough, isn't it, knowing there was an entire other life each of us might have had getting to the age we are now at. Yet, when you (or rather I, since, I cannot ,of course, speak for you) think about the trade offs involved in that other path we might have taken all those years ago, I don't find I would be willing to make that trade, even now, if I could go back.
But, even so, there are no regrets, just a certain wistfulness. I learned a long time ago that often simply being able to fully imagine and visualize an experience can be pretty close to being as good as the experience itself.And, as you say, there is great satisfaction now in what participation we can enjoy.
Hopefully, that is some of the wisdom we gain with age.
Now if only all that "wisdom" would enable me to match my teenage daughters expertise at typing on the friggin tiny keys of this cell phone.!!!!!
I WANT MY PM BACK!!!
There, all better now.

[Scotti]

Just work at it, Scotti. Over time you will rewire. In my nipple orgasm group on Yahoo there are a number of guys who started with no erotic sensitivity in their nipples and now regularly achieve nipple orgasm. Nipple orgasms are the best!

Will do, thanks! Can you PM me the group name?

[myboobs]

Gee, Clara, I could have written that last bit myself! It is tough, isn't it, knowing there was an entire other life each of us might have had getting to the age we are now at. Yet, when you (or rather I, since, I cannot ,of course, speak for you) think about the trade offs involved in that other path we might have taken all those years ago, I don't find I would be willing to make that trade, even now, if I could go back.
But, even so, there are no regrets, just a certain wistfulness. I learned a long time ago that often simply being able to fully imagine and visualize an experience can be pretty close to being as good as the experience itself.And, as you say, there is great satisfaction now in what participation we can enjoy.
Hopefully, that is some of the wisdom we gain with age.
Now if only all that "wisdom" would enable me to match my teenage daughters expertise at typing on the friggin tiny keys of this cell phone.!!!!!
I WANT MY PM BACK!!!
There, all better now.

Samantha I believe it is our age that to a certain degree gives us some freedon to explore our other side . At younger age you are competing to climb the ladder / marriage / kids and of course higher level of terstorone in system that to a degree suppresses the feminine side . With age comes the slow down of testorone which opens other doors .
At my age people look at me and accept me for what I am as I am not a competitor just another old fart

[GoneGirl]

I was going to post this in the 'Sexual Orientation' thread in response to a post by Samantha, but decided to put it here as maybe the more appropriate place.

Lol, Clara! Touche! Ouch!
Was that how you felt? Honestly, if so, I am sorry. That was not my intention. I guess sometimes I may seem more strident than I intend.
Though, actually, I do see a difference myself.
I know you find value in labels, and terminology of this sort, and that is fine.

You're a sweetheart, Samantha. I'm becoming attracted to you. Well, your breasts away.

Yes, I guess I do find value in categorization, even though I'm not a botanist, zoologist, or sexologist.

My understanding of the categories of sexual orientation are:

Heterosexual - capable of sexual arousal by the opposite sex
Homosexual - capable of sexual arousal by the same sex
Bi-sexual - capable of sexual arousal by either sex
Asexual - incapable of sexual arousal
Anallerotic - incapable of sexual arousal by either sex but capable of sexual arousal in other ways
Autogynephilic - sexually aroused by fantasizing about oneself as a woman
Autoandrophilic - sexually aroused by fantasizing about oneself as a man


For most of my life I figured I was anallerotic (No, I don't mean "anal erotic"). I was not sexually aroused by either sex (although I was attracted to women from an aesthetics standpoint). To maintain a state of arousal I needed porn + masturbation.

To fulfill my duties as a husband, I discovered that if I imagined myself being a woman during sexual intercourse, I could maintain a state of arousal. The psychiatric word for that (Google Dr. Ray Blanchard) is 'autogynephilia' or AGP.

Of course, Blanchard didn't call it a sexual orientation. He said that any autogynephiliac who isn't homosexual is a fetishist. He didn't accept the notion that a gender dysphoric man could be heterosexual. Obviously, that's wrong.

It's sad to think that for nearly all my life, until recently, I never found real sexual satisfaction in the arms of my wife as her husband, the man. Today, I do, but not as a man, but as a woman. What's ironic about it is that today, in a state of arousal brought about through "lesbian sex" with my wife, I'll often achieve a lasting erection as a "bi-product". LOL! But, if I then penetrate her vagina, I have to imagine that I'm the submissive, or I'll have a devil of a time reaching orgasm. Go figure.

Some of you must have the same sexuality, no?

CK

[Samantha Rogers]

Interesting. Funny how we all are turned on in different ways. I can relate to the bit about imagining the role reversal during intercourse. In a similar fashion, I always found it hard to orgasm while being the passive recipient of a blow job (well, there was this one...never mind). But place me into a 69 situation and that changes completely. Similarly, I would never, thank God, have been able to be a rapist or anything close, because I could never become aroused without absolutely knowing for certain that the arousal was mutual. Sex, though I engaged in lots of it with many different partners prior to marriage, was never mechanical for me.

[Scotti]

It's sad to think that for nearly all my life, until recently, I never found real sexual satisfaction in the arms of my wife as her husband, the man. Today, I do, but not as a man, but as a woman. What's ironic about it is that today, in a state of arousal brought about through "lesbian sex" with my wife, I'll often achieve a lasting erection as a "bi-product". LOL! But, if I then penetrate her vagina, I have to imagine that I'm the submissive, or I'll have a devil of a time reaching orgasm. Go figure.

Some of you must have the same sexuality, no?

CK

I'd have to state that I have some of the same, but not completely. I have always found satisfaction in being the man in the bedroom, but I have found an even greater satisfaction in being the woman! However, there are certain positions, thoughts and what not that actually make our experience end much quicker than I would like them to, especially when I have my penis in her vagina. There are also times that like you I have to use my imagination to maintain arousal, while other times just the stimulation and acts alone are enough to achieve satisfaction.

And if you've never tried it, enter your SO missionary position, then work it to where your penis is still in her, but you are the one straddling and riding her OR have her on top of you, then work it to where you are still inside her and she is thrusting into you missionary style!

[GoneGirl]

And if you've never tried it, enter your SO missionary position, then work it to where your penis is still in her, but you are the one straddling and riding her OR have her on top of you, then work it to where you are still inside her and she is thrusting into you missionary style!

Oh yes, Scotti. That works for me very well. Anytime she is on top, I feel a rush of excitement. Unfortunately, the geometry is a little off for her to perform male-like thrusting when she's on top. She normally straddles me in an upright position and rocks back and forth. I think it's taking the submissive role that is such a turn on for me. She also likes to lay on top of me and grind her clit into my thigh when I'm just not up to the male thing. I find it exciting and satisfying to know that she is achieving orgasm, even if I don't.

I'm sure that if I was homosexual, or if I had sex with a transsexual woman, I'd be the 'bottom' every time. The T-girl has to be very feminine looking for it to work for me.

Samantha, I too have difficulty cumming from a blow job. It has happened on occasion though, and I always feel kind of guilty about it. It has to be something that I know my woman is desirous of. I always feel better about sex if my woman has an orgasm than not, and I work hard to make it happen. More of a womanly attitude, don't you think?

CK