[GoneGirl]

I wanted expound on this notion of "cross dreamer" that I've self-identified as several times in other posts.

I'm of the opinion that "cross dreamer" is a mixed sexual orientation. That statement is certainly going to cause confusion because we all know that the acknowledged sexual orientations are:

Heterosexual - sexually aroused by the opposite sex
Homosexual - sexually aroused by the same sex
Bi-sexual - sexually aroused by either sex
Asexual - sexually aroused by neither sex

With these four options to choose from, I'm torn between self identifying as heterosexual or asexual. But, I could also identify as homosexual (a lesbian). Huh?

As a man, I'm attracted to women on the one hand, but not sexually aroused (sustained erection) by a woman on the other. At the same time I am not attracted to, nor am I sexually aroused by other men. That would seem to mark me as asexual. But, that doesn't really fit me. So what am I?

People like me are autogynephilic (AGP), a.k.a. cross dreamers. AGP means that I am sexual aroused by the thought of myself being a woman in a sexual encounter. It's a transgender condition in which my sexual response is that of a woman not that of a man. But because I have a man's body, and I'm not attracted to men, I'm in a kind of limbo state where the only way to achieve sexual satisfaction is to either imagine myself as a woman when making love to my wife, or masturbate to the fantasy of being a woman with the help of literature or sex-oriented visual images.

What I really am is a woman in a man's body who wants to make love to another woman. Thus, I'm either heterosexual or homosexual (lesbian) depending on whether I'm considered a male (based on my biological sex), or a female (based on my gender identity).

Yup, very strange. It's no wonder it took me most of my life to figure it out. Does anyone else see themselves this way? You may have to ponder the idea for a good bit to see how it fits you. I know I did.

Clara

[AnnieBL]

I wanted expound on this notion of "cross dreamer" that I've self-identified as several times in other posts.

I'm of the opinion that "cross dreamer" is a mixed sexual orientation. That statement is certainly going to cause confusion because we all know that the acknowledged sexual orientations are:

Heterosexual - sexually aroused by the opposite sex
Homosexual - sexually aroused by the same sex
Bi-sexual - sexually aroused by either sex
Asexual - sexually aroused by neither sex

With these four options to choose from, I'm torn between self identifying as heterosexual or asexual. But, I could also identify as homosexual (a lesbian). Huh?

As a man, I'm attracted to women on the one hand, but not sexually aroused (sustained erection) by a woman on the other. At the same time I am not attracted to, nor am I sexually aroused by other men. That would seem to mark me as asexual. But, that doesn't really fit me. So what am I?

People like me are autogynephilic (AGP), a.k.a. cross dreamers. AGP means that I am sexual aroused by the thought of myself being a woman in a sexual encounter. It's a transgender condition in which my sexual response is that of a woman not that of a man. But because I have a man's body, and I'm not attracted to men, I'm in a kind of limbo state where the only way to achieve sexual satisfaction is to either imagine myself as a woman when making love to my wife, or masturbate to the fantasy of being a woman with the help of literature or sex-oriented visual images.

What I really am is a woman in a man's body who wants to make love to another woman. Thus, I'm either heterosexual or homosexual (lesbian) depending on whether I'm considered a male (based on my biological sex), or a female (based on my gender identity).

Yup, very strange. It's no wonder it took me most of my life to figure it out. Does anyone else see themselves this way? You may have to ponder the idea for a good bit to see how it fits you. I know I did.

Clara

I'm one of those people whose memory of dreams evaporates very fast upon waking. Even so, I am tolerably certain that I am -not- a cross dreamer. Possibly because I really don't know what my gender identity is. Perhaps it depends to some extent on my hormone balance at the time.

I do find that the generally accepted categories of sexual orientation become inadequate in situations where a person's genetic sex and gender are not congruent. I would guess that the majority of people who exhibit male sex and gender will be attracted not only to those of female sex and gender but also to genetic males with a passable female gender presentation, initially at least i.e. they are attracted more to a female gender presentation than to a biological sexual identity as such. There doesn't seem to be an easy way through this conundrum.

[PattiJT]

All good answers. And, no, Samantha, I was not directing comments to you specifically. I was merely trying to impress the fact that things change, sometimes very rapidly, for anyone experimenting with any degree of hormonal modification of their bodies. In effect, this fact of our evolving should be recognized for what it is, and I firmly believe that anyone who fails to accept this is simply in a state of denial, and at the very least, will only delay the discovery of who/what they really are. Those among us who have, in the recent and distant past, stated that they only wanted this, or that, have in short order realized that that was truly not the case when things took hold. One simply cannot undertake this journey with such a narrow-minded approach. You have to be honest enough to admit to yourself that you just don't really know what to expect, and be fully prepared to deal with what physical/mental changes occur. As well, we all have to be insightful enough to realize, understand, and be capable of dealing with the consequences of what our efforts may do to others around us. Many of us are not in this life alone, and we occasionally do a great disservice to others by trying to find ways to justify our behavior to them, or get them to modify their behavior to what we think it should be regarding our desires. A "sticky wicket", if you will. I do admit, to at times becoming miffed at seeing examples of us looking for ways to "convince" our mates to be more accepting of who we are. It's a bit of a "catch-22", inasmuch as we may not know who WE are, but at the same time we expect no less than someone else should unquestioningly go merrily along with their seemingly happy lives, when we have just dropped an atom-bomb on them, throwing a huge amount of doubt and upset into their life. We need to have the foresight to see these situations beforehand, from both points of view. If we indeed have a feminine "mind", then it should be easier, but you can never predict what another human being will think, or how they will react, to anything. Or, for that matter, when their attitude or opinion may totally change as a result of some unexpected event, or even a stray remark. Or, simply tiring of who we have become. In effect, our little "adventure" may actually be more stressful than simply being the "male" we were, which for many of us, is an unthinkable proposition anymore.
I'm only asking that we be up-front and honest with ourselves, and with others here when we ask for advice. If not, the answers you receive may not do you much good. I have probably hurt a couple members feelings in the past, and may again, but I will always be honest in what I say, sometimes brutally so. My 50+ years of being hidden and not-so-hidden has taught me a few things, and I don't mind sharing when possible. But, I will promise to never just tell someone what they want to hear. That would be just plain wrong, and be a disservice to someone who really needs some advice. My goals may be different than many of you here, but the road travelled has been much the same. I can also tell you straight up that it has maybe been easier for me than most of you, but only because I was completely open and honest with my wife of nearly 20 years. She was made aware of Patti on our 3rd date, and being the exceptional woman she is, Patti has only moved onward and upward. I long ago accepted who I was, and am constantly, and with her help, continuing the process to completion. I am indeed a fortunate person in many ways.
My very best wishes to all!! May our lives become a little more understood each and every day! Patti

[GoneGirl]

I'm one of those people whose memory of dreams evaporates very fast upon waking. Even so, I am tolerably certain that I am -not- a cross dreamer. Possibly because I really don't know what my gender identity is. Perhaps it depends to some extent on my hormone balance at the time.

I'm not talking about sleep dreams, Annie. A crossdreamer is someone who dreams about having (wishes he had) a female body. Here's a link to a information about crossdreamers:

http://www.crossdreamers.com/2008/01/rea...ns-of.html

If you're gender-variant, and want to grow breasts, you are in all likelihood a crossdreamer, Annie.

Clara

[Samantha Rogers]

Well said, Patti, especially in regard to our evolving understanding of ourselves, and the impact it can have on others. But it is easy to forget (and Samantha tells me this every day ) that we are all at different stages or points along the road. Sometimes it is easy, having gotten through difficult stages ourselves and feeling a degree of pride in that, to forget how difficult it was to get there, and to make judgements about others who may not yet have gotten through those difficulties or who may have additional burdens we cannot see or possibly understand. This is a tough, lonely, and often tragic road, and we each have our own unique cross to carry. Love, forgiveness and selfless compassion for fellow wayfarers is, IMO, the greatest gift we can give, and possibly the only one of real value. N'est pas?
Hugs

[GoneGirl]

Patti, I can't disagree with anything you stated in your last post. It brought to mind the image of sign along a lonely mountain road:

[attachment=5408]

Clara

[SarahSchilling]

In the past, if I cross dressed, the moment after orgasm, I shed the bra, panties, and hose as quickly as I could, and wondered what in the world I was thinking of. That was not my female side reacting. It was my male side retaking control and disavowing the existence of my female identity

LOL, I used to be the same way....although I was never addicted to sex or anything. I would masturbate once a week or less.

It never felt like a "male" side taking control afterwards though. More like an overwhelming feeling of guilt that I was doing something wrong. I honestly wanted to stay dressed though, so I also felt guilty for abandoning them so quickly after climax.

It was actually a pretty fucked up ritual, even aside from societal connotations. To dress up, sexually abuse who I really was, then cast it all aside with disgust...if that is my male side, then fuck him! Although, personally I consider it to be a faux persona assembled to attempt to fit into what was expected of me.

[pom19]

In the past, if I cross dressed, the moment after orgasm, I shed the bra, panties, and hose as quickly as I could, and wondered what in the world I was thinking of. That was not my female side reacting. It was my male side retaking control and disavowing the existence of my female identity

LOL, I used to be the same way....although I was never addicted to sex or anything. I would masturbate once a week or less.

It never felt like a "male" side taking control afterwards though. More like an overwhelming feeling of guilt that I was doing something wrong. I honestly wanted to stay dressed though, so I also felt guilty for abandoning them so quickly after climax.

It was actually a pretty fucked up ritual, even aside from societal connotations. To dress up, sexually abuse who I really was, then cast it all aside with disgust...if that is my male side, then fuck him! Although, personally I consider it to be a faux persona assembled to attempt to fit into what was expected of me.

Well Sarah, since sex is such a complex and obscure subject, I don't think you did anything wrong. It is all about growth, cheer up.

[Miranda-nata-est]

Clara

I think what you said a while back in this thread or somewhere else rally hits the nail on the head - for those of us who are open to new concepts, ones sexual proclivity is dependant upon the situation. We may not think of ourselves as being 'gay' or 'homophobic' or whatever the label of the day might be, but, dependant on the circumstances we might display polarised sexual behaviour.

I am not convinced any label truly applies as any attempt to label a moving target is certain to miss!!

M x

[Scotti]

But, I have to say that my cross dressing today has NOTHING to do with eroticism or satisfying a sexual need. It is purely an expression of my wanting to feel feminine. There's no longer a need to achieve orgasm at the conclusion of a cross dressing session. In the past, if I cross dressed, the moment after orgasm, I shed the bra, panties, and hose as quickly as I could, and wondered what in the world I was thinking of. That was not my female side reacting. It was my male side retaking control and disavowing the existence of my female identity

Clara

I think I'm at an in between stage of what you describe above. While cross dressing satisfies my need to feel feminine, it always still seems to turn sexual as I take my fantasy further. But like you, once orgasm is achieved it all disappears. However, this could also be due to my limited window of opportunity that I have for enjoying myself in this manner...